Things went too far

Jacob D · Feb 15, 2017

Yesterday I went out for a Valentine's day dinner at a nice Italian restaurant with my best friend and roommate Brandon. He loves Italian food and he wanted to go there so we did. We enjoyed the food and had a really good time at this restaurant. After having dinner and some dessert we left and got into my car. On the way home he wanted to drop off to buy a bottle of wine. He normally buys a bottle once a month mostly for his guests. He also drinks a glass of wine occasionally but not often and I am not a wine person so I never drink it. I usually avoid alcohol and only drink a beer or two if I'm at a party. I'm all about taking care of my body and health so I generally avoid alcohol. Well when we got home he wanted me to have a glass of wine with him. At first I refused because to be honest I'm a little vain over my body and I worked very hard on my abs so I'm a little paranoid over possible weight gain due to alcohol. Anyway common sense sunk in and I realized a glass or two won't turn my abs into flab in one night so I had a glass of wine. Then I joined him for a second glass of wine and then a third and then a fourth.

I remember feeling a strong buzz from the wine while we were sitting together on the couch and I told Brandon the wine was going to my head too fast because I'm not much of a drinker. He laughed and told me I didn't need to drink anymore wine. He finished his glass and then without any warning he leaned in and kissed me on the lips. I ended up kissing him back without even thinking and the kissing got heavier and he began feeling me up through my clothing and he grabbed my hand and put it on his crotch so I found myself feeling him up through his clothing and we both ended up hard. He took all of my clothing off and removed his own and we continued with the kissing on the couch nude. He was touching me everywhere.

After we were done Brandon told me he was developing feelings for me and that scares me. I told him it was the wine but he said it wasn't. I told him I can't see myself in a romantic intimate relationship with another guy. He told me I need to be open to the idea of at least trying it and seeing where it goes. I want to be open minded about everything in life but I'm pretty sure that I do not want to be in a romantic relationship with a guy. I love women and I want a romantic relationship with a female. For me our sexual experiences were nothing more than 2 guys physically getting sexually off together. It's not about gender nor is it about sexuality to me. It's physical. it's biological. But now Brandon is having feelings for me and it's scary because I don't think I can return those feelings. I'm also scared because I enjoyed the sexual stuff we did last night. It physically felt incredible and it was so different and new to me. I never did any of those things before but it felt so physically good that I wonder if it means I am gay and don't know it.

Both Brandon and I agreed earlier this morning that things last night went too far. Before we both headed off to work we talked over breakfast, openly and honestly with each other, about last night even though it was a little awkward. I asked him if he wanted me to move out. He said no. He asked me the same question and I said no. I told him the FWB arrangement needed to end now that he was developing feelings for me and it made me uncomfortable and because some of the sexual stuff we tried felt physically too good and it was too confusing for me. Brandon told me he liked our arrangement but that if I wanted to stop it that he would accept that. I told him that him developing feelings for me scared me because I don't think I'm able to return it and because I love women and not men. He said he understood. He told me he wasn't pressuring me into anything. He asked me to think and to consider the possibility of trying a romantic relationship with him just to see where it goes and to keep an open mind. I told him I'll think about it but couldn't promise him anything. Brandon assured me he would respect whatever choice I made. He told me there was no pressure and that the most important thing was our friendship, regardless of whatever happened or whatever I decided. I won't lie, I'm a little curious now about his offer of trying out a romantic relationship with him. Part of me thinks Brandon is right but part of me thinks it can never work. I don't know. What I do know is that things were much easier when we were just platonic friends, before it turned to a FWB arrangement. Had it remained platonic I wouldn't be questioning my sexuality, I'd be the happy straight guy I always was. And Brandon wouldn't be developing feelings for me either had everything remained platonic. He would be his usual happy gay self without any emotional feelings towards me.

Moderator note: the above message was edited by staff to remove a bit of graphic detail in the message, in keeping with our guidelines that all posts must be no more than PG-13 in content. This is not intended to reflect on the overall purpose or intent of the message, but only to ensure that the post meets moderation guidelines for explicitness of the content discussed.

Mj5963 · Feb 15, 2017

Hi there thanks for sharing your story , as a mature guy who has questions about his sexuality and I am a dad too, I always had a curious side was college athlete so repressed it forever and finally explored and I am happy to say I can confidently say sex with a guy can be amazing and brutally addicting but so can with women, life offers u choices and being open minded and exploring to see is key, most guys are curious at minimum and some find it is awesome others not their cup of tea. Be honest to yourself and lifeboat will be awesome
E

JonSomebody · Feb 15, 2017

Well...Well...Well...honestly...this doesn't surprise me. I kind of saw this coming when you had mentioned you were moving in with Brandon. Eventually, someone would develop feelings in a situation such as yours and although you had mentioned that you guys have been having honest and open conversations. Nonetheless, because you have been open to explore other areas of sexuality such as guy to guy contact with Brandon who is special in your life, I honestly have to say to you that from previous posts that you had mentioned the kisses, the cuddling, etc. there was no way that I did not foresee things going to the next level physically between you two. I really thought things would have gone farther especially on Valentine's night. Just me being honest right now. Although, you had mentioned too that you really had not felt any kind of connection/chemistry when the two of you kissed a couple of times, apparently, something was felt in order to get you to allow him to lead you to getting naked and jerking you off with a lot of kissing I may add.

Therefore, because I am a gay man and in Brandon's defense...more than likely...he had to realize some kind of sexual connection between the two of you prior to taking things further on that particular evening. Another thing I would like to say is that I really believe that you do have feelings for Brandon but on the other hand...you are struggling with the possibility that you could possibly have feelings for a guy that you have had for women. In other words...and again...just my opinion...to some degree...you battle back and forth with your attraction to Brandon but in the long run...you become afraid of those feelings because you are still indecisive with the fact of seeing yourself in a same sex relationship especially when you are still prone to have love for women which by the way is where you see your future when it comes to relationship being with a woman despite the fact of you having chemistry with Brandon which is also something that you have not embraced yet which is why now that night with Brandon is scaring the hell out of you. The confusion you are dealing with now is on one hand ....you liked it a lot...but because you are still undecided and struggling with your identity in regards to what you like or do not like...at the end of the day...you do not want to hurt Brandon. With that being said...the both of you just blame it on the aaaaalcohol... !!!! However, you did mentioned also my friend when this first started that you were willing to be open minded in order to see how things would pan out so to speak. In other wise..from what I just read on your post...I think you did not think that you would actually enjoy what happened sexually with you two as much as you did which too can be scary also. Whether you are ready to admit or not...all that Brandon is dealing with right now ....and so are you...You two are not ready to own these feelings just yet because Brandon is afraid that he may had reveal too much too soon and may cause problems with the friendship you two have. You on the other hand is not ready to deal with none of it even though deep down inside...YOU LIKED IT AND YOU ENJOYED IT A LOT!!!!!

And so...the problem is now ...am I really gay now??? do I have feelings for Brandon more than just friendship???...Where do we go from here??? Can we go back to the way were were before the other night??? ...sooo many questions...sooo much confusion. And guess what???....come a little closer...I really want you to get this part...you and Brandon will do it again...because your emotions are all over the place due to the fact that...let me say this again...YOU LIKED IT!!!! YOU ENJOYED IT!!!!...and when its good...YOU WANT MORE OF THAT GOOD STUFF!!!! YOU GO BRANDON!!!!! on a serious note though...initially...you were baffling back and forth about your being straight all along...so...although Brandon initiated it to some degree...this is not something that you have not thought about or been curious about doing with your best gay friend Brandon...because deep down...you are really attracted to him...just not ready to own it full on yet..which is understandable...I had a straight guy who took me through the same thing that you are going through right now...imagine that!!!! I hope you are not upset at my honesty because I am not trying to be mean or offensive in any kind of way...just keeping it real...just breathe and take one day at a time...but do not give Brandon the stand off just because he was brave enough to reveal his feelings for you. I am pretty sure that if you kind of open yourself up to him to say that you really enjoyed it and is kind of curious to see where things can go further between you two but keep in mind that you are still taking baby steps and do not want to hurt him at the end of the day if you wound up not being ready to give it a shot between the two of you. These things take time...right???

Jacob D · Feb 15, 2017

Thanks Mj for the response. I agree that life offers us choices and being opened minded and exploring is a good thing.

Hi JonSomebody. As always your feedback is good. No Jon I'm not upset with your honesty. Your honest feedback is helpful and now I have some serious thinking to do.

Mj5963 · Feb 15, 2017

IMO as a total outsider I understand your trepidation trust me I lived it for so long and finally slowly explored and Jonsomebody is right , sexuality is fluid and complicated and I fought it so long to try and ignore it for real , once I released that wow is all I can say

Chip · Feb 15, 2017

Jacob, as much as you probably don't want to hear this, I think it might be time to take a look at yourself, your behaviors, and take the time to think about where you are going and what you want.

You joined a forum for LGBT people coming out three years ago, and have posted fairly consistently about issues related to sex or sexual behavior with men. You had sexual experiences with Brandon 10+ years ago, and recently started having semi-regular sexual experiences with him. You had an experience yesterday that went further, and, while it freaked you out, you also found it enjoyable.

Taken as a whole, these aren't the behaviors of someone who is totally straight.

When anyone goes through the process of exploring their sexuality and discovering they may not be totally straight, there are stages in processing the loss of perception that we're straight: denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance.

What I am hearing, very clearly, from not just this post but others you have made, is that you are, in fact, attracted to and sexually aroused and excited by, Brandon. You're rejecting it and rationalizing it by saying it is simply "two guys taking care of business". But it isn't. At least, not from what I'm seeing.

It is probably terrifying to consider that you might be gay. You talk about loving women and wanting to be in a relationship with one... and one of the questions I'd challenge you to honestly ask yourself is... do you want to be in a relationship with a woman because that's what you think you're supposed to like? Or because it is genuinely where your attractions are?

When you masturbate (without porn), do you think about Brandon giving you head? Other guys? Or do you think about women?

When, 10 years ago, you had the experiences with Brandon, were you imagining yourself with women during the times you guys were fooling around? Or were you engaged on what was going on with Brandon?

My sense is, if you look at the above honestly, you'll probably find that your thoughts are more about guys than about girls... or if they are about girls, that when you do think about guys, the feelings and intensity of experiences are stronger. If that's the case... then your attractions are more toward men than women, and, in fact, you may actually have feelings for Brandon, but be blocking them.

Very often, as we're going through the stages of loss, our conscious and unconscious are at war with one another. Unconscious is driven by what arouses us and feels good, and conscious is mortified if those feelings don't match what we're "supposed" to feel. So we put up all these justifications and rationalizations -- "it's just two guys getting off"... "I really like women better"... but at some level, we know this is BS.

You might also want to take an hour and read through the post history of JustinF, whose situation, in the early stages, sounded almost identical to what you're describing. (He's still active on EC, you could post on his wall...)

Now... I am not telling you that the above is what you're feeling. I'm more saying *if* my guess is correct, then a lot of the above probably resonates for you. And if that's the case, then perhaps it's time to really explore yourself at a deeper level, and consider whether you may not be as straight as you thought.

Whatever you determine, you'll get through it. And if you go through this and reaffirm that you're straight... more power to you. No one has any agenda here except to help you figure out what works for you.

Please keep us in the loop.

Mj5963 · Feb 15, 2017

Jacob all this is super individual and we all process differently , I been working so hard on myself to understand and accept my own sexuality especially as a dad of three daughters played division one sports and here I am on a lgbt site. No denying I am not straight and so happy to say that out loud . I believe sexuality runs the spectrum that is in the kinsey scale. From 0 = straight and 6= gay and everything in between.where I am presently

Jacob D · Feb 15, 2017

Hi Chip. That's right I joined 3 years ago because my stepbrother and his partner are both gay and I also joined because I was an ally in high school and still am an ally today. I haven't posted consistently over the last 3 years issues related to sexual behavior with men. You are mistaken about that. I only recently began posting things about me and Brandon. I never had sex or been been with any men. Brandon is the only guy I ever messed around with.

I never said I was 100 percent straight. I don't believe anyone is 100 percent straight. I am however predominately straight. Brandon who is openly gay has often told me that not even he is 100 percent gay. Believe it or not Brandon had sexual encounters with 2 women during his early 20s while in college and it certainly didn't make him straight or bisexual. He's still very much gay.

You might be right when you say I'm attracted to and sexually aroused and excited by Brandon but I seriously doubt that. You might also be right that I might be rejecting it and rationalizing it by saying it is simply 2 guys getting physically off. I think I'm attracted to his personality (it's addictive) but I know I am not physically sexually attracted to him. Unless I'm deep in denial and totally blind to it, He's not a bad looking guy though. I like him but I'm not in love with him. I enjoy his company but I can't see us as boyfriends.

It is a little scary to consider that I might be gay. But if I am I am not afraid to face it and deal with it. I do love women, always have and always will. I want to be in a relationship with a woman because that's what I like and enjoy and love. It is honestly where my sexual and romantic attractions are. You might not believe me but there's nothing I can do about that. In regards to masturbating (without porn), I talked about this in another thread. I mostly think and fantasize over my ex girlfriend. Like I've mentioned before, I'm still in love with Alison and many of my fantasies involve her. Yes I sometimes think about Brandon giving me head, especially if I relive it in my mind. But no I never think or fantasize about other guys when masturbating. As for what happened 10 years ago when Brandon blew me or jerked me off a few times, I was a 15 year old teenage virgin who had never been with a girl and who never even touched or kissed a girl. I didn't start dating girls until I was 16, so when Brandon was blowing me or jerking me off, I was imagining if that was what it felt to be with a girl. In my mind the images were of girls even though it was Brandon who was giving me oral. In all fairness to Brandon, he was also a 15 year old virgin, and although he knew he was gay at the time, he had never been with another boy. I was his first experience and he was mine. He also had a crush on me during our teenage years but I never knew and he never said a word to me during high school about it.

I know you're wrong about my thoughts being more about guys than about girls. The majority of my thoughts are about Alison, rarely is it over other girls, and certainly not over guys. I will admit I think about Brandon, especially lately but not as often as I think of Alison. You could be right Chip when you said I might actually have feelings for Brandon, but I'm blocking them. Infact you could be right about everything you said and believe. I honestly don't know. You could be right that I'm gay and am completely unaware of it and totally oblivious to this fact. I really do not know. I really need to figure this out at some deeper level and maybe take a shot at something so foreign to me and just take a chance by exploring Brandon's offer. I'm still young and it's better for me to do this now and find out rather than later in life.

Thank you Mj for sharing your stories and experiences with me I'm glad you figured things out and I'm happy to see that you have a healthy positive attitude regarding your bisexuality. I'm sure your 3 daughters are proud of you

johndeere3020 · Feb 15, 2017

Jacob D, Please don't marry a girl until you get all of this figured out. I can tell you it is a hell of a lot harder to be questioning at 44 years old. From what I have read here you have a true friend. Why not talk to him like you talk to us? I think a relationship needs to start with a friendship anyway in order to last.

Don't ever be ashamed of who you are or might be!
Dean

Jacob D · Feb 15, 2017

Hi Dean don't worry about me marrying a girl. I'm single so it won't be happening anytime soon. Once I get everything figured out at some point in my life, I know I'll be fine. As for Brandon, we do talk about everything. Trust me we talk a lot.

johndeere3020 · Feb 15, 2017

You are very lucky to have a friend like that in life!

Mj5963 · Feb 16, 2017

Hi agree with johndere, as a married guy with kids going through this right now is not pleasant and emotionally difficult both for my wife and me . We are doing so much better now it is out there and I am in therapy and soon couples therapy. As I have stated sexuality is complicated and never put in one box , shame is a powerful thing that represses and ultimately builds up so huge it can explode ,I lived it period. So be proud and happy you have friends like you have and the are not trying to convert you to be gay or whatever, your curiously will lead you to a path that when you look in a mirror you see who you are and you are happy about it .

Lacayda · Feb 16, 2017

You are definitely not as straight as you think. :lol: I don't know you and your story with Brandon but to me you sound at least bisexual. If you know you don't want a relationship with this guy you should definitely not try to have one. You can't force yourself to have feelings for anyone. In the end at least one of you will be hurt deeply (and you will most likely ruin your friendship as well).
You said you want to be with a woman and marry her what he has to respect. But please please please don't just marry anyone to fit in This will probably not work out and it's pretty hard (and kind of unfair to your partner) when you want to get divorced in a couple of years because you decided to be true to yourself from now an. That could have easily been avoided.
If you know you want to be with a man for the rest of you life: that's great.
If you want to be with a woman: that's also great:lol:
And if you don't know: Don't force yourself into any kind of relationship. Be honest to yourself and take your time to figure out what you want and who you want ro be with

Mj5963 · Feb 16, 2017

Well said Lacayda, let nature lead u to happiness , trust me as a married man who so conflivted about sexuality the pain is horrendous and not worth trying to fit in, the only fit in that counts is how u look in the mirror and fit in to yourself first the rest happens

Jacob D · Feb 16, 2017

Hi Mj. Good luck with your therapy. I'm sure it must be difficult for both you and your wife but you are on the right track.

Hi Lacayda. Don't worry I'm single so there won't be any marriage to any girl anytime soon. Even if I had a girlfriend, I would never marry just to fit in. That is not who I am. If I should marry in the future, it will be out of love and only love. In regards to you saying I'm not straight but likely bisexual, you might be right. I myself don't know. As for Brandon and I, we have a good solid friendship and I know we can save and maintain our friendship no matter what happens.

Mj5963 · Feb 16, 2017

Jacob so nice to read your post just now , I feel this sense of self starting in what you are saying , as a man who didn't know I had curiosity early in life but certainly as I got into20's always had this little curiosity and when I acted on it it was very real but I was terrified since Married with kids like how can I be like this so I stayed deep inside my own closet , the pain got so bad I was spiraling emotionally which thankfully my wife caught me and ultimately saved me emotionally . So now the healing is in full swing and I am super happy and very ok admitting I am bisexual and proud to say it .

Jacob D · Feb 16, 2017

Mj I'm happy that things for you seem to be working out well. You are certainly on the right path to healing. You also have a good wife too that cares and loves you. I'm very happy for you and wish you the absolute best

Mj5963 · Feb 16, 2017

Thanks Jacob our lives ultimately don't get planned they happen and I have learned being honest to oneself opens any and all possibilities , ironically most of my sexual encounters were with younger guys in 20's and 30's and wow we had many conversations just like yours so in a real way I relate to you and your thinking. Which is why I feel compelled to keep the thread going

brainwashed · Feb 16, 2017

(limited time here) Jacob D, I posted a link to your wall. Here it is again.

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/lgbt-...-fears-sexuality-new-level-understanding.html

I really found that relating sexuality to food desire help bring into scope the complexity of human sexuality. Sexuality can come with shame, food does not.

My take about your experience with Brandon. Its like trying a different type of food. Lets say Mongolian. You are just checking it out. Do you like Mongolian? Dont know until you try. Do you like gay sex? Dont know until you try.

But the crux is are you going to become a Mongolian food officiato? Doubtful. There has to be a very deep desire and connection to become an expert on Mongolian food.

Later

I'm gay · Feb 16, 2017

Jacob,

I have been just fascinated in following your story and your adventures with Brandon. I too was skeptical that you and Brandon could remain in a friends-only relationship that included sex, and I was thinking that one or both of you would develop feelings. And here we are.

Much of what Chip says seems to resonate with my opinion in reading your posts, but it's difficult to tell because you are so emphatic in your belief that you are not attracted to him. However, this:

You might be right when you say I'm attracted to and sexually aroused and excited by Brandon but I seriously doubt that.
Click to expand...

Your original post in this thread got me aroused just reading it and I wasn't even there. I find it very difficult to believe that you are not sexually aroused by him given what you posted. That sounds totally like denial after the fact to me.

I have also noticed in your postings about your relationship with Brandon that you seem to be in a very passive role in your sexual activities. It's like Brandon is the gay one, you are the straight one, and you're just letting Brandon get his jollies with you - and maybe giving you an orgasm in return. Very one-sided here - and not likely to reveal the real truth to you.

Until you take an active role in lovemaking I don't think you're really going to know anything here and will continue to be in confusion. You said you would be open-minded and willing to try things. So, what's stopping you?

Just my 2 cents. ride:

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