I've read a little more now (and even one book!) on coming out later in lifeIt seems like a lot of people who do have, if they are married, an extramarital relationship that is the catalyst for this. I'm not trying to sounds judgemental but I don't ever, ever want to do that to my husband, especially since even if I decide I'm gay I may also decide to stay in the marriage for the children. And yet...I want to try it. I want to go to a gay bar and flirt, and even kiss if the opportunity presents itself. I feel like without hands on experience I can't know, and I have to know before I tell my husband. Or face up to the conflict between my sexuality and my faith. For those who were married and came out without extramarital affairs, how could you be sure about your decision?
Hi so take it from a guy who in fact cheated on my wife for years with guys and she ultimately found out please be honest and have a very tough talk with him. He may surprise you with his reaction. I can't change what I did and the shame and guilt are horrendous . Betrayal is the most terrible thing a spouse can do to another , violation of trust will take years to re-earn if even possible . My wife and I are trying to work hard together to reconcile so we shall see how it goes . So please tell him your interests and desires as sexuality is fluid and on a continuum . Good luck
I left a straight marriage without having slept with a guy while we were married, but knowing by the time I made the decision that I was gay. I had the same desires your describing - the need for intimacy and physical contact. That was one of the leading ways to confirm for me what I had known to be true - that I was gay. If your looking for permission to be unfaithful, I doubt you would find that here. But as Mj says, consider having a discussion with your husband. His reaction may surprise you. Many people have successfully explored there sexuality openly and honestly with their spouses fully aware.
Don't cheat on him. I did some brief, light experimentation with other men whilst married, and as Mj has posted above, when I 'woke up' and realised what I had done the mental anguish, guilt and shame that it brought both my wife and myself was unbearable. If I could change that past and have been open with my wife from the offset about my desire and feelings I would have. If you are like me, you may feel unable to talk about this with anyone due to overwhelming shame and uncertainty, but believe me that experimentation without your spouse's knowledge will not end well for you or your relationship. I should also let you know that what I did in no way helped clarify my sexual orientation, and I'm still trying to come to understand myself.
One thing to add to @aj, it also has not clarified my sexuality and I am working directly with a therapist who specializes in sexuality and gay affirming which has been great help to point me in a direction I can find peace in.
My wife told me as soon as her memories came back. She's a special case, repressed memories, church involvement, just too weird. That was in 1992. I actually arranged her first lesbian encounter at a party, as much as a challenge as anything else. Although by that time I must admit I did believe her, I guess I thought she would be too timid. Mary had always been extremely timid and submissive in sex. Wow, was I surprised. She was wildly aggressive, and wouldn't quit. It was a rocky road after that, but we're still together. If she had stepped out I'm sure that would have been the end of our marriage. Be well
. This is why I shouldn't post after midnight. I am inevitably not clear... trust me, I'm not looking for permission to cheat. I could never do that to him. It just seemed like most people I've been reading about who came out while they were married did in fact cheat, and I guess all I'm wondering is without experience, how can you know for sure that fantasies and desires aren't just that. A discussion will not go well. If he even knew I was exploring it...I shudder. Not only has our family been very conservative Christian, but he has a bit of a temper. He can be very mean when he's angry which is one of the reasons we're separated now. We haven't begun marriage counseling or anything like that so I don't feel comfortable telling him and dealing with that until I am pretty darn sure of my decision.
I have no idea. But... My special little girl remembers, now, when she was 12 wanting to kiss her girlfriend "down there". When she was 14 her fundamentalist Christian church somehow staged an intervention, and she was cured. Whatever they did worked and the trauma and anxiety haunted her from 1969 'till 1992. After years of counseling and therapy suddenly one day she changed. She said she remembered how she really feels. Her feelings were absolutely valid. Not a phase, not just a fantasy. She blossomed into the whole person we had hoped she would become the day she remembered. Her fears and anxieties, her despair and inner shapeless shame just disappeared. From what I've seen you can know how you really feel before you ever get to actually act on your desires. Be well ---------- Post added 16th Mar 2017 at 03:21 PM ---------- I will add a couple things. I was skeptical about the existence of repressed memories before Mary remembered hers. This wild road we have walked isn't anything like we expected when we got married in 1973. I hadn't really given any thought to the fact Mary loved girl watching as much as I did even then. Life, ah well.
I'm not sure what you've been reading, but I wouldn't say "most" cheated while married. I didn't. And many others here did not either. Some people have cheated, that's true. But let's put that aside since you say you don't intend to cheat anyway. Your fantasies are a reflection of your internal desires. I would ask you to examine those fantasies, without the use of porn as it's an unreliable indicator of your true desires, and describe whether those fantasies are strictly homosexual, mostly homosexual, sometimes homosexual, or rarely homosexual. And by fantasies, I'm referring to masturbatory fantasies and not simply daydreaming. Can you picture yourself with a woman as part of a relationship? Do you think about kissing women? Have you had any crushes on women in your life? It is absolutely possible to identify your sexual orientation without direct experience with women. It will take complete honesty from you, and you must be willing to switch off the doubts, fears, anxiety, and shame to allow yourself to experience these desires fully. From my own experience, though, I do want to caution you that going down this road may lead to a point of no return. Once I came out to myself with the full realization that I am gay, it became impossible for me to live in denial and pretend to be straight any longer. I have read many accounts very similar to mine on this site. So, be warned, that often the act of self-realization is a one-way street. I understand that you have fears about the potential reaction from your husband. If you are separated from him, I would suggest that you do not resume living with him until you have resolved this issue of your sexuality. Your ability to move forward with your life depending upon what you decide here will be so much easier if you are no longer living with him. Please continue to read and post here on EC. It really does help! Take care. ride:
After my wife recovered her repressed memories in 1992 she went wild. Then in 1997 she had a breakup with a girlfriend that hit her very hard. She essentially had a breakdown. She decided she didn't like women after all. She decided she didn't like her. She wanted to put it all back into her head and forget again. It's not possible. She cried on my shoulder every night for a month. She sobbed into my shoulder, "Why did God make me wrong!" After a few months she was much better. But even during that trying time she was better off than before '92, overall. It's better to know and be true to how you really feel.
Thank you for your very helpful response! I read a book I bought about married women coming out, one at the library that was kind of an "intro to lesbianism" and a few articles. Nothing earthshattering. That's a little tricky because the faith I've been living says it's a sin to think about anyone, even an imaginary person, other then your spouse. It also teaches masturbation is a sin. So I've worked really hard at controlling my mind. BUT...whenever I slip up, 9 out of 10 times (and the last few years 10 for 10) it's same sex. Any erotic dreams I have are about women- almost always in my life, exclusively the last few years. Yes to the first, in the last year or so in particular to the second, and I don't know to the third. I remember having a very strong attraction to a camp counselor when I was 11 but I didn't know quite what to think of it or where to put it. I have had a couple of friendships that ended in high school that had been pretty intense and my response was much more breakup oriented then friendship ending oriented. I "girl watch" the way most women seem to watch men. When I am watching a movie or something, it's the actresses I notice. I've been a conservative Christian most of my life. Whenever this issue has came up for me (like when Ellen came out, or I saw Better than Chocolate) I stuffed it or the one time I went to someone else for advice they told me to pray and God would deliver me. But it's not like I was unattracted to my husband. I wouldn't have got married if that's the case. I guess that is what confuses me. I wasn't just settling because I thought it was the best I'd get, or I was trying to do the opposite of these thoughts about women. I really loved- love- him, and I was attracted to him enough to make being chaste until our wedding a strain. But those thoughts about women weren't gone, just outnumbered. And these last couple of years, I find myself when I'm with my husband picturing myself with a woman in order to stay interested. I know, and it scares the hell out of me...but not knowing the truth scares me even more. I have to know.
You're not alone here. I was raised in a Pentecostal Christian church and this is exactly what they taught me: it's not just wrong to act on your desires, it's wrong to even have your desires. This is thought control. I was so scared of hell that I repressed this part of me as a child and split it off from my sense of self. It was only 6 months ago when I agreed to meet another guy from a hookup app and arrived at his house that I 'woke up' and realised that I couldn't explain away this course of action and something was not adding up. Take a look at the first thread I made here on EC if you want the full story -- I think we share a lot in common. Also, I'm Gay is correct when saying that this sort of self-analysis is a pandora's box. I've shifted in my self understanding from straight to bi and now I've almost accepted that I'm best described by the 'gay' label. Not quite there yet though. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk further.
I can't PM yet, so I'll respond. I was a Pentecostal before I converted to Catholicism. The only person I ever told about my desires when I was a teen was from my church. She wasn't horrible about it but she also didn't take it any farther then "God will help you if You trust Him." Well, I've tried for a long time and this is still there. You said you were raised that way. Was it something where you just went along with the motions or did you actually believe. I was raised liberal Protestant but converted to a more conservative on my own and my conversion to Catholicism was after my marriage. I very much believe in hell. I wasn't raised to, but I have since I was 8 or 9. And I don't know what to do with my fear of hell. Part of me doesn't want to get rid of it; it makes me feel like if I believe in it and am scared of it it won't happen.
My wife was raised Pentecostal. She now remembers, after recovering repressed memories, having homosexual desires from the age of 12 to just after her 14th birthday. Two things. One, yes, the Pentecostal Church is about thought control. Constant bombardment that you must think correctly, and she very much remembers how guilty she felt, but we don't think that was quite strong enough to force her repression. Two, something happened a couple months after Mary turned 14, and she became asexual. We will never know what happened, but I suspect it was along the lines of a church sponsored intervention. She became over the top religious, going to church multiple times a week, doing all the (what I call "crazy") things they did in that church. She became anxious all the time, fearful, guilty about pretty much everything. Any time she thought about sex she had panic attacks. The change in her was so sudden and stark I think they put her under some extreme pressure in some event. As you can imagine I have a very negative view of fundamentalist Christians.
I too was quite afraid of hell, and although I've come a long way, I don't know if the fear ever goes away completely. But the simple fact is, we just don't know what happens when we die, and the people who claim to know don't know either. Reading up on alternative spirituality and reducing the influence of religion in my life have both been helpful to lessening my fears. If you were serious about putting the influences of conservative Christianity behind you, I would recommend reading "Leaving the Fold" by Marlene Winell.
It's just a pretty big thing to be wrong about, you know? I've left before, and that fear of hell was one of my biggest reasons for coming back. But I feel like I'm living in a state of cognitive dissonance between my thoughts and feelings on my faith and my sexuality and what I have believed for so long and have raised my children in. And if they're happy, I don't want them to leave because I do. And it's just another thing to put a barrier between me and my family. But...I don't know. The whole thing is so frustrating. And I'm trying to keep the two issues (faith and sexuality) separate and I just can't.
No. Cheating will just make things more complicated and difficult. I came out to my husband, then my daughters (ages 16 and 22) and we agreed to hold the marriage together until my youngest graduated high school. I won't lie, it was extremely lonely those last two years. I did start going out more to meet other gay women, but not to "hook up" until I was finally single. My husband is a wonderful man and decent human being, and we parted amicably. He said when I came out that he was relieved in a way because living in a sexless marriage for that many years he felt rejected and hurt. He told me if I was gay, that's biological and not something he took personally at all. My husband sure surprised me. Maybe yours will too. Micki
True, but think of it this way: no matter what we do or believe in there will always be some religion, including major ones with large followings, that claim we will face eternal damnation for what we believe or don't believe in and how we live our lives. You said you were Catholic? There are scores of non-Catholic Christians who will tell you to your face that you will go to hell for that reason alone. And who's to say we're not all supposed to be Muslim? So basically, every single person on the planet is in danger of going to hell according to some belief out there. Of course, knowing this is one thing, but feeling it in your gut is another. One helpful thing I gleaned from the book "Leaving the fold" is that the feelings you have in your gut based on religious belief and upbringing will take some time to change, but that doesn't mean they can't change with time and with a constant questioning of the validity of something you've always been taught or told. I have experienced that first hand. I understand though that it's tricky with your family being involved, which I also understand, and so I wish you the best of luck in sorting things through. It may take some time, but coming from an extremely conservative Catholic background myself I can tell you that things can and will get better if you're willing to put the work in towards change. Sending lots of love and hugs (*hug*)
I was raised Roman Catholic. When I was in grade 6, my teacher told me that those who are not baptized, will all go to hell. Being a young kid at the time, I was terrified at that concept, rushed home, grabbed my Grandma's holy water, and baptized my pet bird because I didn't want him to go to Hell. Looking back on it, it was such a stupid thing to do. And if you are on this earth, unhappy with yourself or who you are, isn't that, in a way, hell too? Personally, I believe no one can be sent to hell for loving another person. People used to be told that they would go to Hell for loving someone of the opposite race, or being left handed, and I am pretty sure that is the same thing for same-sex relationships. I understand you are conflicted, but if God truly didn't want gay people in this world, there wouldn't be any.
