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Can you talk yourself into being gay?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by shortbread, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. shortbread

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    So, I know that most people believe that sexual orientation isn't a choice, and I think that too, but for quite a while now (I think 2+ years) I've been sort of playing around with this idea that I might be gay. My opinion on my orientation is constantly switching; some days I tell myself I'm straight, some days I tell myself I'm not, some days I don't know what to think at all. A part of me, I think, wants to be gay, and so sometimes I catch myself sort of consciously looking at girls in the street, or thinking about girls in that way, and I've been doing that sort of thing for a while. But now I'm confused as to whether I'm still sort of pretending to like girls, and I'm just so used to it it feels like second nature, or whether I was never really pretending at all and it's the real me? I do have a habit of deluding myself, so maybe I've just convinced myself that I might be gay. My question is: is that even possible?

    I should probably give a bit more back story.

    Ever since I was about 7 (before I even knew it was possible for people to be gay), I've done this thing that I call "obsessing" over people, where basically I put this person on a pedestal, learn everything I can about them, glance at them constantly when they're in the same room as me, fantasize conversations with them in my head, try to get them to notice me etc. etc. They weren't romantic, and I put it down to me being hopelessly insecure (I've noticed I tend to obsess over people I'd like to be like) but I'm still not quite clear where the habit stemmed from.

    A couple of years ago, however, I realised that I've only ever obsessed over female people (ranging from people at school to celebrities to teachers...), and I started wondering whether it was nothing to do with my insecurity at all. The problem is, as soon as I started questioning my orientation, I think I started sort of forcing myself to behave like I was attracted to girls because it seemed, I don't know...exciting? Different? I started to alter my obsessing habits slightly so that now I was thinking about my obsessions romantically, and fantasising about us being more than friends (whereas previously I just wanted to be friends). I have no idea whether this was a conscious decision I made, or whether it was just me starting to become aware of my orientation. I started looking at girls differently, and thinking about them differently, but I don't know whether it's all an elaborate act or if it's real.

    So yeah, basically, is it possible that I've just convinced myself I like girls?
     
  2. Aptiva

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    Being gay isn't a choice. It's also not a belief, it's given fact.

    [​IMG]

    In that image you can see the brain of the homosexual male resembles that of a heterosexual female and the brain of a homosexual female resembles that of a heterosexual male.

    So, no, you cannot talk yourself into being gay. You also need to do some exploration and see whether you're gay, bisexual or just going through a phase, which does happen.

    I thought I was going through a phase for quite some time, but those same-sex feelings never went away, so I consider myself to be gay as I am.
     
  3. ButterflyMay

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    OH MY GOSH!! You just described me PERFECTLY!! Unfortunetly I don't have an answer for you, people keep telling me that I just have to wait and experience things but it is frustrating. I can't believe how well you just hit the nail on the head for me though.
     
  4. bb1984

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    I think that you can train yourself to think in a certain way, so it is possible that you have trained yourself to be gay. For example, people train their brains to convince themselves that they actually enjoy eating healthy, or working out when they really don't. Eventually you tell yourself this enough and you will actually start to enjoy healthy foods and exercise (just an analogy). So I guess you could train yourself to be gay, but I think eventually your true feelings will surface.
     
  5. SomeNights

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    To tag on to BB1984 there was actually lot of studies on it. The physiological concept is called conditioning and it's one of Pavlov's . Grated his is more toward external conditioning and Conditioned responses, but I wouldn't think it too far fetched to think that you could self-condition. (If you want more info google "pavlov's dogs" or "classical conditioning")

    Back to the original poster's question: I doubt it. Being the inquisitive person that I am, lets say "yes" you did condition yourself gay, my next question would be "why did you do it?". See where this can start a logic circle? And it happened in the real world didn't it? so it is real. There is no intermission or second act to life....well for most of us anyway.

    In summary (If you skipped everything else I don't blame you):

    I think that people put too much thought into the "am i gay" question seeking a finiate answer when lets be honest, this is the real world and there isn't a finiate answer for all of us. Also, seeing(from what I gathered) that you are a very young poster, experiment find out for yourself who you are.

    73
     
  6. Musician

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    I'm just curious about that brain study Aptiva posted - I've heard a lot about it, but have they done longitudinal studies and seen whether the brain structures change over time? I know that our brains change all the time, even into our adulthood, and I'm wondering if people's brains change - like if you are a fluid bisexual, then within a certain number of years, would the brain map shown above would be subject to change?
     
  7. Ebro1122

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    Every one is dodging the elephant in the room... have you ever had SEXUAL fantasies about a girl? Do you pleasure yourself to the thought of seeing a girl naked/touching one? That is usually a pretty good indicator of sexual attraction and or level of gayness.
     
  8. Reptillian

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    It'd be interesting to see conclusive evidence that fluid sexual and fluid sexual orientation is a reality using said study. Now, I wonder how the heck you're going to find people whose sexuality is subjected to change at one point in time. It's not like fluid sexual orientation is predictable and only exists in less than 0.75% of the world and most don't know that sexual orientation can change for very few people.
     
  9. cm81990

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    These studies have several flaws in them and they do not conclude whether or not these brain differences were caused before or after birth. Yes, your environment can create changes in your brain. I agree that being gay is not a conscious choice, but lets be careful posting studies that have never been scientifically verified. I have taken stats classes and it amazes me how many flaws there are in studies of the so-called "gay brain." We simply do not know if these brain structural differences were present at birth or developed throughout life. We also do not if this applies to all gays/lesbians.

    ---------- Post added 6th May 2013 at 01:41 PM ----------

    No they have not. When I have time I'll post some of the flaws about it. Don't make conclusions on studies based on a media report. Try to find links to the actual academic papers that publish these things.

    ---------- Post added 6th May 2013 at 01:44 PM ----------

    We are yet to know what causes sexual orientation to begin with, how stable it is throughout life, etc. Whenever I hear about "gay gene," "gay men with female brains," etc., I think about political desperation by gay/lesbian activists. They are so destined to prove that gay is totally and I mean 100% inborn, yet the facts still remain uncertain. Obviously no one consciously chooses to be gay, but there may be a very complex mixture of inborn and post-birth factors that leads to the development of a certain sexual orientation.
     
  10. Musician

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    @CM I love the fact you are so statistically inclined. As a big baseball fan (don't know if you are), I can only cringe about the idiocy of conventional wisdom assumptions when there are stats (not so much in the mainstream) that completely go against the wisdom of traditionally popular things like bunting and stealing bases (most of the time). That and people placing emphasis on how bad it is to do certain things based on conventional logic, when in reality, statistically it is a good thing (like swinging on a 3-0 count, when you are most likely to see the BEST pitch to hit, instead of taking it).

    Don't know if you're a baseball guy, but there are millions of things outside of baseball which are statistically valuable which can help us, but people are turning a blind eye because of faulty beliefs. Just wanted to rant about that.
     
  11. cm81990

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    I am a baseball fan :slight_smile:. My point was with such small sampling sizes. They also rely solely on self report in order to distinguish sexual orientation. What if a guy that identified as "straight" in these studies was actually gay? Because he says he's straight, his brain scan gets lumped with the other hetero males. I read the LeVay studies and again same problems.
     
  12. Musician

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    Completely agree. Small sample size is a major problem in any study of such significance, IMO. Like the problem with the playoffs, where they crown the champion based on a best of 5 or even best-of-7. Does not have anywhere near the significance over the length of a 162 game season, so in the words of GM Billy Beane, it becomes a "f*cking crapshoot".

    And, akin to self-reporting, people observing and making judgments about a player based on what it *looks* like he's doing, as opposed to what the *numbers* (and good ones, over a long period of time) say.
     
  13. RainDreamer

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    I don't think you can. It is very hard to just deny your nature and force it in some other ways. Just as straight people would find it very, very difficult to feel comfortable with the idea of having a same sex relationship, no matter, homosexual just find it very difficult to feel comfortable with the idea of having a straight relationship.
    It is not about what they think about the relationship, straight people can be very accepting of same sex relationship, but they would never be able to have one simply because it is not in their nature.
     
  14. how

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    I think it is possible to make yourself attracted to the same sex. I have often wondered whether in fact I am actually bisexual but I, for some reason I don't quite understand myself, don't want to be bisexual . I think I have made myself dislike female'parts' and the idea of heterosexual sex, but i'm happy to identify as gay. For now at least.
     
  15. ahundredpennies

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    Same here exactly! I didn't know other's felt that way.
     
  16. kirst

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    i feel exactly the same way as you! everything you have described i have experienced! and im just as confused... haha. let me know if you figure it out! :slight_smile:
     
  17. Exoskeleton

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    You can train yourself to exhibit certain behaviors.

    If you spend enough time forcing yourself to look at women as potential partners, you will find yourself doing so without forcing yourself. It will become reflexive, and once you aren't consciously forcing it, you may wondering where the heck it came from.

    Now, I used to fantasize romantically about men all the time. But, when I look back, I know I was doing it intentionally because I wanted to meet society's/my mother's expectations. Here's why: Whenever I fantasized about them, it was always about showing them off to other people. I dreamed of getting a boyfriend because that's what people wanted of me. I didn't find the targets attractive, really. My fantasies weren't about us spending deep, personal time together experiencing powerful, intimate moments. It was about holding their hand when I brought them to meet my mother or introducing them as my husband at some function or another. They weren't about how happy I would be with them, but how happy my family would be that I was with them.

    That doesn't seem anything like what you're going through, but I say it to suggest that you look at the qualities of your fantasies. Are they about you walking down the street with a girlfriend so people will see you as living life on the edge? Like Ebro said, do you fantasize about sex with women? Is there anything about being with a woman that makes you uncomfortable (beyond "society won't like it" or "but I want kids!")? If there's anything disingenuous about your fantasies, they may be something you've conjured up.

    Hope that helps. :slight_smile:
     
  18. Pret Allez

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    Sort of, yes.

    I have talked myself into being a lot gayer than I thought I was eight years ago.

    I do still think it's possible to vastly oversell how much this is possible.