Hey all, This is where my mind's at: From the age of 18 to 22 I suspected I might be gay based on becoming obsessive about a college friend, checking out guys on campus, and not being into porn or jacking off (I didn't do it for the first time until age 20, and I only started because I wanted to prove to myself I was normal) At age 23 after college I started going to therapy, went out on a date with a girl (nothing came of it), and started reading the blogs of other guys going through sexuality confusion. I also started my own blog. Age 24-26 I continued the blog (except for a one year break where I convinced myself I wasn't into guys after all), but for the most part shifted my attention to career issues which definitely exemplified to me that I have major anxiety and rumination issues. Whenever I did think about sexuality I went in circles and didn't really make much progress. At times I would decide I was gay, and other times I would doubt. I ultimately realized I'm largely asexual which helps explain why figuring out what I'm into has been so difficult. Age 27 I joined dating sites to give dating guys a try. I felt my physical attractions (based on number of crushes and frequency of checking people out in public, I don't really have sexual fantasies) were drawn more towards guys, which is why I wanted to see how this would go. The second guy I dated seemed very interesting. We continued to date until he relegated me to the friend zone. No one else captured my interest in the same way, and I didn't find myself attracted in the slightest to most of the guys I went out with. My new friend, however, was different. Though I didn't really feel sexually attracted to him (I haven't felt that way towards anyone) I did think he was good looking and really loved his personality. I ended up expressing my feelings for him and it turned out he had given me a second thought. Long story short, we became boyfriends for eight and a half months. He met most of my close friends and family members. He went as my date to my ten year high school reunion. Obviously, I came out to EVERYONE because of this guy. What had started out as an experiment ended with me being out as gay. I really enjoyed being his boyfriend, and was surprised at how much I took to being affectionate with him. Now, sex wasn't ever mind-blowing. It was fun, but not something that I thought was earth-shattering or anything and I was never all that driven to have it. We only ever did handjobs or occasional oral. There were reasons we couldn't really do anal (I don't really want to get into that, basically it would be uncomfortable for him to bottom) I did find myself able to get aroused, I didn't have a problem with that. Occasionally I would have a problem achieving orgasm, especially early on, but he did too. I think anxiety probably has to do with it. Overall though I didn't really have much sexual drive. Now it's three months after he blindsided me with a break up. Turns out he wasn't really all that into me. He gave me time to grow on him because he recognized we should be a great match, but in the end he just didn't feel the sparks he felt he should be feeling. Consequently he went back to girls for a while to see if he could find the spark there, though I think since then he's started dating guys again. The three months were hard for me. I was taken by surprise and was devastated. He had become my best friend. The companionship is what I miss most. The sex I can do without. I've since been dating guys. I've made some new friends but so far no one has sparked my interest like he did and I'm worried he was a fluke. So I'm confused again. Only difference is now I'm out. I keep going through periods where I wonder whether I shouldn't give dating girls a try, but now that I've been in a serious relationship with a guy I know it would be a LOT harder. And I'm not even sure it'd be worth it. Though I still don't find myself drawn to many people, when I do it's often a guy. Just yesterday at a conference I attended there was a really cute guy at a booth that I chatted with. I didn't much care about what he was peddling, I just wanted to talk to him, haha. Things like that should be indications that I'm on the right track, that no course correction is needed. But because I lack the sexual energy that so many others have, I still find my ever-thinking mind plagued by constant rumination and doubt. Anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? I guess I just get anxious that I'm limiting myself to the very small gay dating pool unnecessarily, when my low sex drive could very well allow me to date either sex. It is called SEXual orientation after all . . . If I have to "fake" it either way, why not just "fake" it with a girl? Not that I would lie of course. My ex knew I didn't have much of a sex drive, and he claimed that wasn't a factor in our breakup. How do asexuals decide what sex they want to date if they don't have sexual attraction to go on? How important is physical attraction if you aren't particularly sexual? Sorry for the ramble, just curious to get some other perspectives.
No, no! I appreciate the ramble. I can relate so much to all of this, only, I'm kind of at the beginning of that story. I don't really have advice but I know how you feel. My dates with women have been just as nice as dates with guys because for me it's all about social interaction and just being stimulated intellectually. The only thing for me is there's that feeling of relief and honesty when it's with a guy because that's who I'm attracted to. Only... well... not sexually attracted because my pants never get tight over anyone but yeah... I totally feel you. I have anxiety issues too. The therapists and interns working toward being therapists are trying to get me to go see another therapist about it or wanting me to get medicated or something but that just scares me.
Well, if I want to start with a horrible pun, I'd say that if SEXual attraction is lacking, you should look for roMANtic attraction By which I'm obviously not ordering you to focus on men. But... reading your post, it does strike me how you liked the companionship and the close bond with this guy (and at least felt the potential for it in a previous date), and that on occasion you feel very much drawn to a guy, even if just to check if he's fun to talk to. While, on the same time, your post doesn't really say anything about women. an omission which might be quite telling. If you would be more bi, or more straight, I'm guessing counter-examples would present themselves quite easily. Personally, I do think that "guys just catch my eye" or "I just feel drawn to some guys" is just as significant as sexual attraction. Sure, sexual attraction almost feels more measurable (in the very literal sense if nothing else), but in the long term, I'm not sure if it is the thing that binds relationships together. That function goes towards the romantic part of "wow, this guy is really quite awesome!" In any relationship, you will be spending vastly more time NOT having sex than having sex, after all. So then, the question becomes: that feeling of bonding, of being truly best friends with another dimension to the friendship, of feeling interested even in the tiny boring details of someone else's life... do you feel like you can have that with a woman? Have you ever had the inclination to? Even if you would consider faking the sex, I don't think you should settle for second best when it comes to all other parts of a relationship. Speaking for myself, for example, I'm not a very sexual person generally. I don't ever get attracted to people on the street on a sexual level (in fact, I'm generally repulsed by even the idea of physical contact with most people). I've had one or two crushes where I barely had any sexual thoughts for them, just a drive to talk to them as much as possible. But... the fact remains that I feel exclusively drawn to guys. I click with them in a way I never do with girls. When I met my boyfriend, there was no thoughts of "must seduce him!" or anything, but there was a definite feeling of "this guy is too awesome not to try and get closer to!" And things developed from there... (incidentally to the point where I AM sexually attracted to him, but that was a component that was definitely not there in the beginning) So if you aren't a very sexual person, I still think you have leads. Less measurable on a physical level, but very real and present nonetheless. Anyhows, that's just my 2 cents. I hope they can be of help!
there is more than just sexual attraction involved when it comes to relationships. as Flip mentioned, romantic attraction is very important and it seems like you experience romantic attraction towards men. there are other types of attraction as well. Spoiler perhaps it should be noted that this image is from an asexual's POV. sexual people do not always differentiate between all of these. there are also romantic orientations just as there are sexual orientations. Spoiler it is especially common among asexuals to refer to their romantic orientation as well as their sexual orientation (ie. "panromantic asexual"), but the usage of romantic orientations is also gradually becoming more common outside of the asexual community. back to your original second question, "physical attraction" is a very vague term to use. what exactly do you mean? in my opinion "physical attraction" could refer to three different types of attraction: sensual, sexual or aesthetic attraction (see spoiler 1). sensual and aesthetic attraction can be just as important to an asexual as it could be for anyone else. asexuality only refers to a lack of sexual attraction, after all. if you know that it is only a low sex drive that you are experiencing and that you do indeed experience sexual attraction, perhaps you are gray-asexual or demisexual....? (see this post re: gray-asexuality & demisexuality) i think that Flip inadvertently hinted at demisexuality with this: even though he personally does not identify as demisexual. perhaps you, OP, are a homoromantic demisexual (or as i like to say, "demi-homosexual")....? or perhaps you are simply a homosexual who has a low sex drive. really i'm just throwing out ideas at you for your consideration. as for whether or not you should try dating girls again.... i can't really comment on that. personally, for a while i identified as demi-pansexual/panromantic demisexual because while i knew fully well that my sex drive was practically non-existent, i convinced myself that i do/did experience sexual attraction with my partners, even if it was weak..... but recently i've reevaluated what i thought to be my own brand of sexual attraction and came to the conclusion that it wasn't actually sexual attraction at all, just a romantic attraction that was so strong that i became ok with sex, even if there was no sexual attraction there. it took me 27 years and two relationships spanning four years each to come to such a conclusion.... as far as i'm concerned, your "rambling" is nothing compared to what i could do lol. i wish you the best working out what's best for you.
Thanks Filip. You seem to be really good at making me feeling better, haha. I do tend to feel drawn to guys. I went to an event over the weekend at my local university, put on by a group of undergraduates. A couple of the guys I felt quite drawn to, especially after I conversed with them. There were some pretty girls to, but my attention was more focused on the guys. As for counter-examples, there definitely have been many instances of crushes on girls in my life, which was a large part of the confusion I experienced in my early to mid twenties. In retrospect, however, I would never crush on girls based on appearance alone. I always had to get to know them a bit first, to get a feel for their personality. And the level of obsession was rarely as strong. Maybe just one or two girls I can think of. Guys, on the other hand, I have crushed on without having ever said a word to them. I honestly don't know. Straight guys often have male best friends but still have satisfying companionship with women, so I don't see why I couldn't have it too. I agree. I guess since I'm such a skeptic and also have a major tendency to doubt myself, I am always questioning whether I should trust the leads that I feel since they are so nebulous. However, the fact remains that I was happy in my relationship. I reached my personal peak of comfort with being gay while I was with him. It is only now, during the aftermath, where I find myself backsliding, once again intimidated by the very limited gay dating pool (although I am fortunate enough to live in Southern California where it is nowhere near as limited as elsewhere) and questioning whether I really have to subject myself to hardships that might be unnecessary. It also doesn't help that, out of the 20 some-odd guys that I have gone out with, my ex is really the only one that I liked that much, that I felt that instant connection with. Guess I gotta keep chugging. ---------- Post added 13th May 2013 at 08:31 PM ---------- Curlycats: Thank you for the graphics and advice. As you can see in my profile info, I have been considering that I might be a homoromantic demisexual. I was able to get aroused with my ex-boyfriend, sometimes just thinking about him or talking to him on the phone. I guess I mean all three. Sensual and sexual attraction I only have felt within the context of my relationship. Usually with men I just feel aesthetic attraction. With women I notice when they are attractive, but it does not draw my attention as much as it does with men. For women I have mostly experienced what I refer to as emotional attraction . . . although I would tend to also notice their aesthetic appeal a lot more once that attraction was in place.
Ugh, so long ago that I wrote this post. I wish I was in a better place. It has been more than a year since I got dumped. I have done everything they say to do. Thrown out my plan to keep my ex as a friend. Unfriended him from Facebook and removed any and all reminders from view. Stopped communicating with all his friends. Taken up new hobbies/pursuits. Dated others, then took a break when things got too frustrating. Still I wish I was still with him. I recently dated a guy who lived pretty close. He was seemingly a great match. Intellectually compatible. Similar values. Similar interests. Fun personality. Pretty cute. Although I admit the attraction was not all that strong on my side. He had a beard which is usually not my thing, he was a little bit round in the face (though not fat by any means). And the "spark" of interest that I had felt from the get-go with my ex was not there. I tried to give things time to see if feelings would grow, but I was so caught up in my own head and so afraid of hurting him that I ended up acting all inhibited and avoidant (much like my ex was, come to think of it). End result: my mental state was not conducive to feelings, and my lack of reciprocity when it came to signs of attraction/interest caused his interest to wane. Problem is, I'm having a hard time justifying in my head why I'm dating guys. I haven't found anyone since my ex that has convinced me "Yeah, I'm doing the right thing." I have some possible OCD going on, which is the "doubting disease," and it seems that no matter how much evidence toward being into guys there is (see previous post above), I just can't date them confidently. I keep thinking of my ex as a "bait and switch," a one-in-a-million guy that I was capable of falling for that convinced me it was worth it to come out and date guys. Now I'm out to everyone and I have this intense fear of winding up alone and wishing I had dated girls instead. It doesn't help that I have a friend who used to date guys exclusively and still admits to being predominantly attracted to guys, but is in a long-term relationship with a girl and is happy (she is well aware of his past). If I had the confidence of many guys, the "I'm totally gay, I've known since I was six and never questioned it," then if I wound up alone I'd just say, "Well, that's just the way it goes." But because I have this idea in my head that I could have gone either way, that I CHOSE to date guys when it may have worked just fine with girls (I've got a really low sex drive, so I have no cravings for sex either way), I fear blaming myself if I wind up alone. I have such a hard time convincing myself that there's another guy out there capable of impressing me the way my ex did. All I've experienced in dating since then has been disappointment. What guys I do find attractive on the online dating sites usually don't respond. And I fear that my mental state will sabotage a relationship with any promising guy anyway. Not that a relationship with a girl would fare better. Guess I just feel trapped. This resonate with anyone? Any demisexuals/asexuals/bisexuals have trouble committing to one sex or the other without wondering "what if"?
First of of all, thank you Socalguitarguy and Filip for this wonderful discussion. I am in a very similar place emotionally/sexually and this is extremely helpful info for me. Socalguitarguy, I so feel for you here and wish I could tell you something that would help you half as much as I've been helped by reading this. What I can say is you're 29, I'm 37. You've dated 20 guys, I've dated none. You have time AND experience on your side. As for the orientation doubt, I think you know how to separate your romantic feelings from everything else. Once I got the right terminology it was easy for me to figure out. Don't waste your time on people you don't have THAT feeling for. Only you can know who those people are. If dating isn't working for you right now take some time to devote to the other passions in your life. If you're anything like me you probably have more than a few. Although I've never "dated" a man I had a friend a few years ago who I had very strong feelings for. After a short period of blissful companionship he ran away from me and eventually married a woman. I still don't know if I'll ever find someone like him again. But I still have hope. Is it really any more wrong to hope than to believe you'll be forever alone?
Thanks MfromA! It makes me happy to hear that this thread has helped you. That's the other reason I turn to this website 20 is actually low, I've gone out with more like 50 (what can I say, I went a little dating crazy in the past year trying to "move on"). But yeah, I do still have time. One problem I'm having with holding out for THAT feeling is that I'm not convinced it's a good thing to look for. I've felt THAT feeling for two guys in my life. The first was a straight friend who ended up hurting me by disappearing for three years with no explanation. The second was my ex, whose emotional problems led him to break my heart. I'm worried that there's something about emotionally troubled/unavailable guys that elicits THAT feeling for me. After he left me, I criticized my ex for throwing away everything good we had because he wanted to feel the "sparks" and "fireworks." I told myself, and many others agreed, that a real relationship is built on compatibility, shared values, etc etc. But now that I've felt the feeling, I feel like I'm in the same trap my ex was in. Wanting to be a maximizer. Wanting to feel the LOOOVE. Even if it means passing up on relationships that might very well be stable and long lasting if I could just wrap my mind around it.
It's a conundrum, I guess. Ideally you'd have the "sparks" at the beginning and that would fade in to a more durable form of love. I guess when I said "THAT" feeling I meant some sense of romance and not necessarily full on "Fireworks". I can tell the "Romantic" feeling apart from the "Friendship" feeling and I would only date people in the first category. I guess it would be nice to be able to jump past that crazy first phase of relationships and go straight to the stable part. But it can't be that way, we have to go through the crazy feelings and risk getting our hearts broken several times before we get where we really want to be. It's really all beautiful once you get some perspective on it. As for the friendship I discussed earlier, the one who I loved but who left me. I found it all exhilarating, even the bad parts. And I would do it again, and again, and again even knowing how it ended.
I suppose I'd do it again too. I really did love the guy. For eight whole months all the anxieties that had plagued me for years were finally starting to calm down. I had hope. Life was a joy with intermittent stress, rather than stress with intermittent joy. Now I just need to learn how to attain that by myself, and not require another person to do it.
