Two pro choice arguments that frustrate me

^^^ this

 

The point of the first one is that most vocal anti-abortion advocates are also very conservative in other ways, including LGBT rights.

The second thing is that when you say that you're "pro-life" (which is a pretty meaningless phrase which has the meaning assigned to it by the extremists), you come across as anti-abortion.

The problem with you saying that you're against abortion is that most people will assume that you want abortion to be unavailable, which is monstrous. It doesn't make you evil (even if the belief is rather non-sensical), but believing in the importance of the foetus above the parent is terrible, and what many people who oppose abortion come across as. Whether you oppose the right to obtain an abortion or not is what will make you a bad person, not merely the moral convictions you have.

 

A lot of prochoice people tend to use this argument, especially if they're more liberal like me. Its not really intended to be directed at you, but rather the extreme right-winger conservatives who tend to be against a lot of stuff that's rather sane. They're against abortion, but often times screw people over with certain policies that are rather contradictory to their prolife stance.

 

The first one being "if the fetus turned out gay would you still support it's rights?"

The other thing is when they get mad and go, "oh what if some twelve year old gets raped!? You going to make her live with that!? You're a horrible person!"

But those things don't apply to you, where as they certainly would apply to an awful lot of other people who are 'pro-life'.

You know full well there are people who will go out of their way to make a gay persons life miserable, but a lot of these people would have fought fiercely for their rights before birth.

There are also people who think that even in cases of rape, abortion isn't OK, which means there are people who would make your theoretical 12 year old have the baby.

You might think these things but other people do, and the arguments can't just go away because they don't apply to SOME people with the same over-used label of 'pro-life'.

 

and my issue is the exact opposite

I get to listen to some pro-lifers tell me that if some woman was raped then there must have been a reason. Point is there are extremists on both sides

I am certainly pro choice...and frankly while this next statement paints a broad picture I feel there is something to be said about that old saying that the religious right only cares about you until you are born. They want to make all mothers have all babies but then when those babies end up on welfare, some of the right will scream and holler about how "they shouldn't be taking my tax dollars!"

I too would dislike if someone was using abortion as birth control but forcing a mother to keep yet another unwanted baby is not a good idea IMO.

Now the whole 12 year old argument I have definately heard

Never heard the "what if he turns out gay" argument before...not that I am saying you haven't heard it, just a new one to me

 

Hon there's always a middle ground position available! I think even a lot of pro-choice people would agree that abortion should be done responsibly and should not be a go-to method for contraception when there are so many better options out there.

 

It's not like anyone has ever wanted abortion to be the first choice. That's really, really obvious. But the point of being pro-choice is to make sure it is a choice when other methods have failed or weren't used. No point in punishing mistakes.

 

You know what the most annoying thing about those is? They aren't really arguments. They're not dealing with the pros and cons of abortion.
They're really just assaulting the messenger. "Oh, you're not perfect either? Then I don't have to listen to you!".

As if only people who never waver, and have iron-clad, exception-free convictions are allowed to have an opinion on anything.

It's always going to be a loaded topic, but going for the man instead of the ball is always only going to end up with shouting matches.

In the end, I have never actually met someone who is pro-abortion. Oh, I'm "pro-choice" if you want to use the traditional terms. But I am also passionate about creating a world where the issue doesn't matter anymore because there are better options than abortion for every possible case.
The only difference between me and traditional pro-lifers is that I see abortion as a symptom of other problems, and I don't believe attacking the symptom is going to improve things.

 

Kind of building off what's already been said, abortion is a VERY situational issue... it's morality depends on each individual case. The fact that sex can create a child is just a fact of life, thus it baffles me when someone gets pregnant and they're both sitting there going "well I didn't know". Abortion shouldn't be used as a means of birth control.

The way I see it, unless the mother and/or child is going to die as a result of giving birth, or there is concrete evidence that proves the conception was a result of rape, then the mother and father of that baby need to take responsibility for their child.

This is why this issue also needs to have a "pro-situational" category. Because I feel if that was an "official" stance, most people would drift in that direction (granted we would probably still have some extremists on both sides...)

 

I completely agree with this. Unless in the situation where there is rape involved or the birth may cause the mother to die then they should have to keep the child.

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I also really don't see how killing the baby in the womb is any different then killing the baby two weeks after it is born. Either way, the baby never gets the chance to live. The only difference is that killing a baby in the womb is only frowned upon while killing it a week after it's born is murder

 

Yes, and it's also a crime to masturbate or use a condom.

Can we get out of the 19th century and acknowledge that the only person who should decide is the person with the womb? What are you all trying to accomplish by opposing abortion unless it's on your terms and under your approvial?

 

I believe any woman has its own rights with her body (..right?) so I never saw the "abortion" discussion as something that should be in law one way or the other

 

I'm kind of in the middle. I think allot of stupid people have unprotected sex and then think it's an excuse to go and have an abortion when their luck runs out. I don't think that's fair to the kid. I don't think people should be able to make decisions about their own body when they are not making sound decisions. I think that if someone is raped or homeless and they become pregnant, that's different. Of if the mother's life is in danger. It's just a really complicated issue and I think that abortions need to be highly regulated (and only allowed in acceptable cases), but maybe not eliminated all together.

 

You say in one sentence that abortion isn't a cut-and-dry issue, and then in another sentence you say that it is a cut-and-dry issue by saying that people go running around screwing whoever and then having abortions.

The simple fact of it is that behind every abortion, there's a set of circumstances, and this is one issue that led me to one of many profound realizations about American conservatism. One of them is that American conservatives in general have very simple thought processes, hence the anti-choice view. They say that because a fetus is being killed that it must be just some teenage/college s**t that can't close her legs and so ban abortion in all circumstances, even rape and incest.

I say that we all have a fundamental right to privacy that extends to our reproductive and sexual matters that the neither the government, nor a church, nor any one person has the right to get involved in. It's just that: Private.

But back to what I was saying earlier, the facts about abortion are not what the pro-life crowd likes to say they are. Most women who have abortions are in their 20's, and they are disproportionally below the poverty line. While most anti-choicers vote Republican, this is exactly why the abortion rate goes up: due to the results of Republican policies: mainly lack of access to contraception, comprehensive sex education, quality health care, education, and good jobs.

The biggest reason I support legal abortion is because of what my generation thankfully didn't have to endure (but might have to if Roe V. Wade is overturned). This documentary is a half hour long and is called, "When Abortion Was Illegal: Untold Stories." It was made by the PBS affiliate in San Jose, California, and it describes why abortion must be legal. You can be against it on moral grounds, but for the sake of women, it has to be legal, as Roe V. Wade wasn't when women started having abortions, it was when women stopped dying from abortions.

[youtube]h01RGhgMPn8[/youtube]

 

Except that here in the states, sex education isn't taught in schools. And/or parents won't talk to their children about sex. Many teens have no idea how to practice safe sex or that sex causes pregnancy until it's too late. Also contraception is hard to come by. And we don't have much in the way of social systems to help mothers who can't support their children. (Or children in abusive situations for that matter)

Personally, I dislike the idea that a person should only be able to get an abortion in certain situations such as rape or incest, because at its core, it's treating pregnancy as a punishment for consensual sex.

Though I find the above opening arguments to be a bit silly, because they're pulling in too many general conservative related issues, instead of focusing on directly correlated issues.

In abortion discussions, I like to use the argument of body autonomy.

 

Fun fact, giving women the choice with abortion lowered crime in each state as the law was passed. Unwanted babies cause whole new problems. And deaths from attempted home abortions. It is sad yes that abortion is the only option some people have, but to not allow abortion brings its own bag of problems.

 

Every abortion has a story behind it. Don't judge others on their reasons for having a medical procedure to get rid of a fetus that they may not be able to support, may not be able to have, or may not even be viable outside the mother.

PS: I'm not trying to say you were, I was just saying why I am staunchly pro-choice.