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"Sir", "Ma'am", "Miss" and people's names

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by MisterTinkles, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. MisterTinkles

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    I am from Texas, I was raised with Southern manners. Although I am now older, I forget myself sometimes, but I try to be polite at all times. Especially with speaking to the elderly or someone whom I don't know their name, or trying to get someones attention.

    I was always taught that if you need to get someones attention and you do not know their name, you are to use "sir" or "ma'am" if they look mature, and use "miss" if it's a young woman. "Sir" works for males of all ages.....or "young man" can also be used for young males.

    I was also taught you NEVER, EVER scream "Hey You", "Dude", or whistle at somebody like you are calling a dog. That is the epitome of rudeness, disrespect, and contempt.

    I for one have NEVER tolerated being whistled at like a dog. I keep on walking. I am not a dog, and I will not answer to a dog call.

    Some people just don't get it when a retail clerk, cashier, or someone on the street has to use "sir", "ma'am", or "miss" to get someones attention for some reason, and then throws a tantrum because they think you are calling them OLD by getting their attention this way. Ok, so you dropped your wallet, and there are 30 other women near you, what am I supposed to say? "Hey stupid bitch"? I don't know your name, so what am I supposed to call you that you aren't going to throw a 3 year old tantrum over?

    This is one of the reasons I don't do so many nice things in public anymore. I am more likely to get cussed out than thanked. Now, if it is someone of advanced years, then I know they will appreciate it, so I don't mind taking the risk, as I have been offered rewards for getting their attention for something they failed to notice. Not that I took anything of course, thats rude. But being offered a reward (usually a soda) is a nice thank you gesture.

    Younger people, no so much. If someone younger drops something or forgets to grab all of their stuff on the way out, and I catch their attention by use of "sir" or "ma'am", they don't even acknowledge my presence, much less utter any kind of Thank You to me. So usually, anyone under 50, I just let alone......I chalk it up to a learning lesson on their end to not be so forgetful in public.

    Some people consider it offensive to use the terms "sir", "ma'am", or "miss". Why?
    You aren't calling them a name, you just don't know their name or you don't want to be rude and call them by their name, because you haven't received permission to do so from them.

    Which brings me to the use of peoples names.

    If someone tells you that their name is Kenneth, THAT is the name you call them.
    You DO NOT call them Ken, Kenny, Keith, Kyle, or anything else. I don't care if you know 5 other Kenneth's who like to be called Kenny.......they are NOT all the SAME PERSON!

    If you ASK Kenneth if you can call him Kenny, and he say's yes, then you may do so.
    If you ASK Kenneth if you can call him Kenny, and he say's no, then you do not ever proceed to doubt that you can call him anything other than Kenneth.

    It is the severest form of hate, contempt, extremely bad manners, and insult to call someone any other name than the one they have given you.

    I do not trust anyone who cannot be bothered to do something as simple and easy as call me by the name (or names) I give you permission to use. I won't trust you, I won't like you, I won't listen to anything you have to say. I have no time to waste on anyone who is so brain dead, they cannot comprehend such a basic and simple etiquette.

    I went to an interview one time, and the manager was looking right at my resume, with my name on it, and he was sitting there calling me "William" and then "Steve". I just smiled at him, got up and walked out.

    Besides, who are YOU to think YOU have the right, the ability, or the justification to change MY name? You have NO rights at all, ever.



    Simple, basic manners and etiquette such as "sir", "ma'am", and using someones name properly is something that is as basic as knowing not to put your hand in a fire, unless you want to get burned.

    Doing anything else shows that you have no manners of any kind, and have no respect, dignity, or consideration for anyone else.
     
  2. Michael

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    That's why I tend to walk a bit closer to the person, and just use the plain good old "excuse me".

    Never had a problem with it.

    [​IMG]

    That's why people doesn't seem to "notice" you being kind. They might notice, but can't let it show. People nowadays just avoid to talk to each other, specially strangers. It's just not seen as polite anymore, it's seen as creepy.

    I'm too young, but still I remember the difference when I was a child, and every visit to the local pharmacy included a little amount of polite chit-chat. My father was (and is) very sociable, but this still happened more frequently back then than nowadays, where you are more likely to go to a faceless pharmacy owned by a corp and you never meet the same clerk twice. I think this way of life is also a factor on why people is more mentally ill nowadays, they just are way more isolated, and when they have to interact, it's in a forced manner, full of expectations and stress about the outcome... 'Cause to interact with people doesn't feel as natural anymore as it was not so long ago.

    I think it's a pity... That's why I try to be as polite and social as I can with anyone, just to keep my social muscles fit. To give or receive a smile, to have a laught after a light joke... This is just healthy and fun, and the modern way of life is stealing us this little pleasures. That doesn't mean you can't still do it, regardless of the outcome. If they chose to be all drama and foolishness, it's up to them. If you chose to go with the flow and be unsociable just like the rest, people will pick this up from you, spread it around, and it will go worse. It's up to you...
     
  3. MisterTinkles

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    "Excuse me" is only used in Southern manners if you are with the person, know the person, or they are too close to you. It is not meant to be used as a device for getting someone's attention, as it is too generalized and can be ignored too easily by everyone around.



    Yes, there is a nice lady I know in Finland. She say's it is very bad manners to talk to someone in public there. You are to keep your head down and go your own way. But I think when trying to get someones attention if really needed, you would have to be as polite as possible to them, which would be the use of "sir" or "ma'am".


    Being UNsociable is the new norm unfortunately. And this comes from the use of personal technology devices. They have turned people into anti-social zombies. They have no idea how to communicate with REAL people, face to face.
     
  4. CyclingFan

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    Didn't we fight a whole war about telling southerners just how much we hated their rigid, authoritarian formality?
     
  5. OGS

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    Wow--Texas sounds terrible!! I use Sir, Miss and Ma'am all the time and I've never encountered any of the sort of attitude you're talking about. As far as gestures of kindness to strangers in public generally speaking I find people are a little surprised in a way that I find a little sad but I've certainly never encountered anything like hostility for it--young, old or in between. As far as the name thing my name has a long form and a short form and almost everyone makes a point of asking me which I prefer and they seem genuinely disturbed that I honestly have no preference--I've considered just deciding on a preference because people seem so disturbed at the idea that they might be calling me the one I don't like and I'm just too polite to tell them. I suppose I've never lived in the South though...
     
  6. allnewtome

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    As someone who's spent years in the hospitality/service industry I can relate to the irritation of the whistle same with the finger snap or the banging on a table/bar.

    The name thing I'm a tad different on. I've got a similar name-that can be shortened and have the dreaded "y" added to it as well. In a professional setting I always introduce myself as my full first name and my last name and then don't take it personally if someone chooses to respond with any form of my name. If they throw the "y" on it in response I'll simply correct them with a "Ken, please" and that's the end of it. Most seem to follow suit and behave accordingly.

    I'm really the same way if I'm introduced to someone directly or by a third party which is often dependant of the situation. "Hey this is James Smith" I'll usually respond at some point with a "Jim?" and then act accordingly. I typically follow that pattern although I never do the "y" in talking to an adult of either sex.
     
  7. Really

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    I heard once that the most important thing about a person is their name. So, basically, get it right. That being said, as my name already has the diminutive "-y" on the end of it, there's not much you can do with it. I have had a few people shorten it from "Really" to "Reals" but I'm always amused because almost nobody calls me that and I am surprised they think we're that chummy. Doesn't bother me. For some reason I don't like it if they lengthen it, though.
     
  8. Chiroptera

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    I use these words all the time.

    One of my teachers always answers it like "Sir is in heaven!" (the word for sir, "senhor", in portuguese, can refer to god too, like "Lord").

    Funny thing is, some people complain about the youth lacking manners, but answer like that.
     
  9. CyclingFan

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    Older people have been complaining about how terrible young people's manners are since about forever.

    Pretty sure at least half of Plato's Republic is about how Aristotle is an rude, impertinent punk kid.
     
  10. MisterTinkles

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    Well, I am talking generally speaking, in the broadest sense possible, across the USA, across all age ranges.

    I don't know about other countries, only from what I've heard second or third hand.

    I have actually only had maybe two or three people in my whole life act "offended" by being called "ma'am", and all have been women. Two of them more or less made a joke out of it...."Oh really? Im old enough to be a Ma'am now? I need to tell my husband"! And then laugh about it. I only had one woman get irate with me, which was many years ago now. She said she likes to be called by her NAME because she is NOT a "ma'am". I told her I was sorry and I didn't know her name, so how was I supposed to address her? She just snorted like a bull, gave me a "go to hell" look and stomped off.

    Everybody else, except for a lot of the rude younger ones, has been amiable about it.

    I mean really......if you left your purse, wallet, or dropped something......being called "sir" or "ma'am" would be the least of my worries, as long as I got my stuff back.

    People nowadays find any reason to get pissed off or find a reason to sue someone. You can't say anything without offending everybody. Everybody is looking for a quick buck, and this seems to be the way to do it. Take someone to court because they called you "ma'am".

    There are no scruples anymore. There is no self worth anymore. People will prostitute themselves for whatever easy or free money they can get, and that includes selling out their friends and family.
     
  11. Linthras

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    Over here you just say excuse me or something similar when adressing someone new/unfamiliar.
    I only ever use sir/ma'am in formal situations like work. Which is pretty much the only situation I can think of right now.
     
  12. Aldrick

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    I think there are a couple of proper ways to use "Sir" and "Ma'am".

    Informal, Respectful: You do not know someones name or have not been introduced. You might see their name on a nametag, but calling them by that name without them first using it or someone else first using it is creepy. It's akin to a complete stranger acting all buddy-buddy with you and is really uncomfortable. If someone introduces themselves, then you should introduce yourself. In all other instances, it is proper to use "Sir" or "Ma'am" as a gesture of respect to the individual.

    Formal, Respectful: There are some instances where using it is practically mandatory. This is usually when dealing with professional individuals, and may be necessary even if you know their name. For example, when dealing with a cop, you'd say "Sir" or "Ma'am" if you are dealing with them in an official capacity and they are in uniform. Similarly, you might use it for someone like a teacher so you don't have to say "Mr. / Ms. <Last Name>" constantly. It is considered highly respectful and good manners to use it when dealing with someone in the service industry, such as a waiter or a cashier. It is appropriate to do so, to acknowledge their work, and to show respect to them--especially since so few others do. Basically, it is always appropriate to use when dealing with someone performing their job, even if you also know their name. Doing so acknowledges that they are professionals and are deserving of respect. Individuals with some type of real power of authority over you, legal or otherwise, it is almost mandatory that you treat them in such a fashion and doing anything less is considered highly disrespectful.

    Although it is also connected with an individual of age--the older someone obviously is, the more formal and respectful you should treat them--it is also not really connected with age at all. It is certainly proper to make sure you speak respectfully to elders, but the terms are used for everyone based on the two broad situations that I outlined above.

    No rational person is offended by being called "Sir" or "Ma'am" unless they are being misgendered or something. Most people will see it as a sign of respect, and those that don't... well, bless their heart, not everyone is fortunate enough to be raised to know proper manners. :icon_razz We just deal with such folks as best we can. :icon_razz

    Otherwise, if someone has multiple encounters with someone, it is usually good manners to introduce yourself so such formality can be dropped. "Oh, please, call me <insert name>." This is how you properly respond to someone who keeps calling you "Sir" or "Ma'am". If someone still occasionally uses "Sir" or "Ma'am" after an introduction, and you don't like it because it feels to formal or makes you feel old it is proper to point it out in a playful way. "Come on now. Do I look like a Ma'am to you? I ain't your grandmother, sweetie, you can just call me <insert name>, there ain't no need to be so formal, we're all friends here." That should solve the problem. It becomes impolite for the person to keep doing it after that.
     
  13. skiff

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    Wow!

    There is a lot of frustration and anger in the world. I never imagined this topic would get so heated.

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 skiff, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  14. Maddy

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    I'm not sure how the leap from "not cool with being addressed in a certain way" to "will sell out friends and family for money" was made.

    I don't think I've ever been called ma'am. My culture is a pretty casual one and I'm not one for strict etiquette rules.
     
  15. Biotech49

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    I am definitely NOT from the south but spent some time in the military. I got used to saying ma'am and still use it no matter the age of the person to whom I am speaking or trying to get the attention of (which is basically the only time I use the term). It never bothered me to be called that. I don't see the fuss.
     
  16. skiff

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    Hi,

    I have been thinking about this...

    We here are LGBT and face so many (wrong) preconxeptions and discriminations, so how could we treat another person badly because we do not share the same rules of etiquette? Has being gay not taught us the fallibility of preconceptions?

    What if we judge folks by their deeds and the content of their heart?

    Society is so full of wrong headed rules that demand rigid compliance or you are OUT, we know this. Tolerance of diversity is so important.

    Just because society teaches something it does not make it correct.

    If you are sucked in by the "rules" it may explain some difficulties. Let'm go.

    Tom
     
  17. tscott

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    Sir and Miss have gotten me through life in good stead. Rarely, if ever do I use ma'am unless I've done something wrong. It has helped my children avoid calling people uncle and aunt or using just first names. No one's objected, and I live in Rochester, NY a rather progressive city. We must recognize that the tolerance preached by many is nothing more than a dictator run amok, and is used to put down others whose beliefs don't measure up. The same cane be said of the rules of etiquette. They are put in place to make movement in society pleasant and accessible to everyone, or they can be used as a bludgeon to separate "us" from "them".
     
  18. skiff

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    Hi tscott,

    Love and family too can be bludgeons.

    Society is bipolar.
     
  19. arturoenrico

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    On the subject, I don't like when people I don't know in doctor's offices or businesses, etc. call me by my first name to get more familiar. I like to be addressed properly until I know someone well enough for first name status. Does that exist anymore?
     
  20. skiff

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    Speaking of etiquette...

    What is the etiquette if a Sir or Ma'am wears enough cologne/perfume as you approach them the scent punches you in the face and knocks you down?

    Worse, you share an office cubicle in training...

    I wish it was a simple Sir/Ma'am issue.