People writing their genitalia under "gender"

The problem stems from the fact that, for better or worse, gender equals sex in society given that for the majority of people it's synonymous (not just "some people"). When you fill out official forms with the government that ask for gender, it really is asking for sex (whether as on an original or amended birth certificate). There was actually a comment here a while back where a trans male was upset that someone listed "XY" under their gender because "how could you be sure unless you had a DNA test." The fact of the matter is that for most intents and purposes, genitalia/chromosomes/gender of most people align, but we must be cognizant that it isn't the case for all people, whether Klinefelter syndrome or transsexualism or other factor. But I can understand how listing genitals and not gender can be seen as a "dick move," especially on an LGBT support forum (Kaiser, do I get a prize for the pun? :lol: )

Now, here's an interesting question: should all trans people on this site put "trans" next to their self-identified gender or should they simply state their gender without a "trans" prefix or suffix? If you're a trans male but is straight, you could very well list "male" under gender and "straight" under orientation and many here will see you as an ally and not an LGBT person and can change how people perceive your experiences and what you're trying to do here (i.e ally vs support).

Additionally, should all people who identify as transsexual (not just "transgender") use the asterisk after trans? Or should that be reserved for those who are transgender but not transsexual?

 

They are tangentially related because they deal with self-identification. Many people self-identify their genitals as their gender and, while you give great deference to how a trans person self-identifies, the same deference is not given to a cisgender folks, who must simply identify as male/man female/woman under "gender" in order for it to not cause dysphoria to trans members. And that is how the questions are related. Who decides what is acceptable as a method of self identification? Can a person not identify their gender with their genitals? (If we go by semantics, we could say a transman can identify as a "man" or transman, but not "male," because the latter is a designation of sex while the first two are a designation of gender. Of course, it would be wrong to tell a person how they should identify.)

One thing trans people should know (and probably do) is that many cisgender folks identify genitalia with gender because there is no dysphoria (hence why they are cisgender) and, barring using societal gender roles, masculinity and femininity inevitably get reduced to genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics. It doesn't help that the de facto (and de jure) method of self-identification and assignment of gender is genitalia. Ask most guys "why are you a guy?" and the answer will almost always turn to genitalia. Heck, ask a child who is taught reproduction what makes a boy and a girl and he will answer the same way.

 

Alamo is right. For most people (the general population), and probably a majority of people even within the LGBT community, gender and sex mean the same thing -- they do not make a distinction between the two. If someone puts "I have a penis" as their gender, they are probably just unaware that gender is not technically equivalent to sex, at least not in the way it is used here. Most of these people are not going out of their way to offend you.

 

you called?

 

I don't think any of these people mean bad by this, but I do see where you're coming from. I also agree with AlamoCity that for most people (and by most people I mean cisgender folks) gender equals sex.

For me no trans* guy is lesser than any cis guy. Same goes for chicks - cis or trans*.

Don't sweat it!

(*hug*)

 

so you're telling people feel free to write their own thoughts but when they're expressing what they think about the issue you're raising, you're getting upset about it? is this because they aren't all calling for people to immediately jump into their control panel and edit out their genitals?

 

I have to admit, I'm slightly disappointed...

I clicked this thinking, are people really putting "penis/vagina" on official forms? What rebels!

 

No need to get your knickers (or should I say boxers incase that offends you also?) in a twist, I could say you're suppressing my free right to express humour, but I digress.

Should I change my 'orientation' while I'm at it because it trivialises 'the LGBT struggle' and only encourages others not to embrace their sexuality?

Without people like me this world would be shit, I'm not flying the PC flag any day.

---------- Post added 6th Jul 2015 at 12:29 PM ----------

I think it's only me :lol: If you take aim at me you have to be ready to face the artillery!

 

Huh, did not actually know what the asterisk was about, but then I'm the only trans person I know sooo I don't know much about the community at large outside of this site and a few Wikipedia articles... Tbh I'm not a big fan of the distinction between sex and gender. Why? Because that distinction suggests that no matter what I do, I can't escape being male. And that is not acceptable to me. I get why the distinction is seen as necessary but I just feel like it's another way to invalidate us... Buuuuuut that's not really what this thread is about! That's just my personal gripe.

On the proper subject of the matter though, yeah, I could say it's pretty insensitive. I usually find myself rolling my eyes when I see a user with "penis" as their gender. I think it kind of speaks to that eternal 3 year old of male culture. That idea of "Hey look at mah junk!" Which is pretty counter to the trans experience... But consider how much society has influenced this behavior... In the media, in comedy boys are taught not only to be proud of their genitals but also to laugh about them... Where as girl are taught to be ashamed and never speak of their genitalia... There's been efforts to change this culture but it's been met with a lot if resistance... So why do I bring this up? Because it is a culture that is completely outside the realm of the trans experience. We don't want to talk about our genitals, we either don't want them to begin with don't really care about them or are completely okay with them. This varies from person to person and is sort of silently understood as such. However, I feel like the main reason we don't want to talk about our junk (aside from dysphoria that said junk tends to induce in a lot if us) is because other people are waaaaaay to interested in them. Like seriously to uncomfortable levels, which I think is a hinderance to us as a community... Cause I genuinely want to hear some surgical success stories... Like, desperately... But that's something we should consider is the difference in mindset inherent in cis and trans genitalia perception.

However... I'd like to purpose a thought to you... Have you considered the possibility that some people identifying with their genitals may be trying to take their own gender out of the equation? That maybe they themselves don't know what to define themselves as or don't want to define themselves a certain way? It's a possibility, it might not be so in all cases but it's a possibility. However, it's also none of our business. As much as it may bother you or I it is their way of identifying, it's not as though they are intending to say "penis=male gtfo FTM people" but it's understandable also why it might feel like that... It's just as much their right to use their genitals to express their personal gender as it is for us to identify based on who we are inside... That's just my take on this...

 

Hmm... Some interesting thoughts here... To be honest, I don't tend to identify with any specific gender. Sure, I appear as male, and society would deem me as male, and I am comfortable in my skin, but I don't have any internal voice telling me I am a male. Is this just a "cis" thing to not have to be aware of such an internal gender? However, in this case, the cat child (nekoko)'s proposition makes some sense. I don't actually identity internally as anything, I feel, so maybe defining my sex and gender by my genitals makes more sense personally. I mean, I already do that... for me, I am male because I have a male body, and I guess that aligns with me mentally. Still, the fact that I have a male body feels like the defining feature of my gender to me. So, having to put my psychological "internal identity," when that is mostly just a function of my biology, is a little inaccurate (can't think of a good word...)

 

I understand it as:

Gender: How you identify.
Sex: What you were born with (as crude as that sounds).

Does anyone else agree? Am I right/wrong with this view on it?

 

I tend to agree given that this thread has triggered an identify crisis for me.

 

I was referring to government forms and the like, not here or other online communities. I know better than to expect everybody to behave on the Internet!

You keep being you. <3

 

And at the dawn of man, there was minority discrimination, and thus^ was the justification.
Not that you are not allowed to turn a phrase the way you want to; it just isn't my favorite argument for anything.


People here are being super harsh on OP. He felt upset that people were ignoring parts of his arguments, which is understandable.
Again, I'm disappointed by the pack mentality.

Can't say I entirely agree or disagree. But I am also offended when I see penile gender identification, at least sometimes. It is a very good way to remind me that my thoughts that I will never be accepted by society because society sees it like that (even though one day that won't be relevant) and might as well, ya'know, are justified.
It's also a reminder how the T in LGBT+ are often forced to draw the shortest straw because they're less normal.
And when people throw that to the wind and don't even try to understand, I just feel like either weeping for humanity or just isolating myself even more.