So why do radical feminists hate trans girls again?

Because they think they are men.

 

You don't have to apologize for having an opinion. Disagreeing with feminism or thinking something negative about it doesn't automatically mean you're a bad person.

Any group that believes itself to be above criticism is a fundamentally flawed group and will ultimately fail.

So if you have concerns, raise them and don't apologize for speaking your mind

 

To be honest I don't have a clue. It's probably a fear of the unusual. Not saying it's unusual

 

Not all radical feminists (haha) hate trans girls, I think that group is a little more extensive. But they kinda freak me out too, I understand.

 

Feminazis hate everyone who is not the same as them, kind of like regular Nazis.
Feminists want equal rights for everyone, regardless of gender.

 

I have met many radical feminists IRL, both women, men, and trans people, who are my friends, have no problem with me being a trans woman, and actively support trans people, male or female.

People in this thread are so generalizing, it's silly.

 

I think a part of the problem is that pretty much *everyone* uses the word "gender" in fairly imprecise/incomplete ways...or at least to mean too many things.

In common parlance, we use "gender" to mean everything from "gender norms" to "gender identity" to "gender expression" to "sex"...it's ridiculous. So there is no way to have a productive discussion anywhere that people have strong feelings, because we're so bad with the language.

If we're talking about "gender norms", then yeah, those are completely socially constructed. In US society, someone with a penis wearing a skirt is breaking established gender norms. In Scotland, the norm is different. In US society, someone with a vagina who wants to learn how to hunt is breaking established gender norms. In other cultures, that is perfectly normal. There is nothing biological about these constructions...it's all about social evolution.

BUT, if we're talking about "gender identity", then my sense is there is sufficient medical evidence to indicate this is not *at all* socially constructed.

Basically, the argument gravechild is describing (that this brand of feminists make) is something like: "gender norms are entirely socially constructed, and so biological males whose gender identity is female reinforce stereotypes of gender expression that do not serve the political interests of womankind." The arguments refers to three completely different gender-related concepts...and lumps them all together under "gender".

When you pull apart what it's really saying, the statement is utterly inane, because:
(a) *lots* of women reinforce those stereotypes of gender expression;
(b) *not* all transwomen reinforce those stereotypes of gender expression; and
(c) transwomen are *part* of "womankind".

But basically, I agree with all the statements that say the problem is that they do not accept transwomen as women...which is the real reason they have a problem with them. And yeah, hopefully, that mindset is going away.

But to the main point of this post, I think *everyone* would be better served if we (as a society) stopped using the word "gender" on its own *entirely*, and only used it to modify other words: gender norms, gender identity, gender expression, etc.

 

I think the problem mainly comes from the inconsistency.

Too many people saying too many different things, and all of them using the same words but with different assumed contexts to them. At the end of the day trying to understand feminism is basically impossible. It's a trainwreck. A big confusing trainwreck because instead of focusing on the problems they focused on wordplay and how to make it sound as elitist and full of BS as possible and everything comes with a triple meaning which ultimately makes everything a contradicting message that's being spread around by a million subgroups all claiming to be the "True" feminism, and to top off the madness they all in unison only demand one thing of you "Reject personal identity and carry the label feminism because only with that word attached to your resume can you truly be deserving of calling yourself a good person"

 

The argument I heard was that they think they want to invade women's spaces and yada yada.

While, for trans men, they think that they transition for the purpose of gaining male priviledge.

 

Exactly. I know far more cis women who reinforce stereotypes related to femininity, but I don't see people getting their panties in a bunch over every celebrity who gets surgery or shows their body off. I could be missing them, though, a real possibility since I'm not involved in those circles, and only catch the debates related certain topics.

I don't think transgenders can win with some people. If they're too different from what the mainstream says men and women should be like, that's used as proof that they were never really the gender they say they are. If they're too successful, well, they're harmful caricatures. There are plenty of varieties out there, but people either choose to ignore, or are unaware.

Too many cis people have said, "I never thought about it; I simply went with the flow, but gender isn't something I consciously think about," but that sort of proves the point that they *don't* have to think about it, and are more or less comfortable with the way things are. Not so with trans men and women, who are often forced to reexamine their beliefs relating to gender, sexuality, expressions.

And too many people assume that since gender and sex align for most, it's that way for everyone. You don't have to experience something to listen to where someone is coming from, do your homework, and at least *try* to be respectful. That's too much for some people, it seems. I forget where I heard this quote, but someone said that for a group of people that use the term "private parts", they sure make it their business to ask about them freely!

 

Those kind of feminists are NOT for equality, not just for trans women, but for men either, they see themselves as superior to males. Thus it makes them special for being female to be a birth right. In other words they ignore medical science in favor of their "feels". And I don't give a shit about their feels. However these women seem to be a very very small minority now.