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Separation between sexual and romantic attraction?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by HerrinDesFeuers, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. HerrinDesFeuers

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    I often read in this forum that it's very unlikely that there is a seperation between romantic and sexual attraction because there's no scientific proof. This may be true, I don't know.
    I also read that people who label their sexual and romantic orientation differently often mistake strong friendships for love or are in some stage of denial.
    This always makes me doubt my feelings a bit.

    I don't really care about labels (especially complex ones), and if you want to keep it plain and simple I'm just a lesbian. But I still think that a more "detailed" description of my orientation is homosexual and panromantic. I can imagine having sex only with women, not with men. I can find men really hot and attractive and have enjoyed making out with them in the past (maybe my "problem" already starts here because someone else might see me more somewhere on the bisexual spectrum because of that), but anything involving a penis turns me off.

    Despite only wanting sex with women, I think that I'm capable of loving a person of any gender since I don't really understand gender anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference for me.
    That's where I begin to doubt when reading things like mentioned above.
    I wonder if it's true that I mistake friendship for love and that I actually can't fall in love with a man. But then again, how could I have a preference for one gender if I can't even tell the different genders apart? I'm quite sure that I don't have a preference for one gender.

    So after all, this always leaves me with the question: If this is how I feel and if there is no separation between sexual and romantic attraction, how am I to describe my feelings? Am I missing something? Or is my understanding of romantic (or even sexual) attraction wrong?

    I'm not looking for a label that suits me, I just want to try to look at my feelings from a different perspective and maybe understand them better.
    Do you think that there is a separation between romantic and sexual attraction? How would you describe the two? And if you think that there is no separation, how would you describe/what do you think about what I wrote?
    Can anyone relate?

    Feel free to share any comments and thoughts you have on this topic.
     
  2. beowoolf

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    I think I can relate.

    I definitely see romantic and sexual attraction as potentially two very different things. Personally, I find myself physically and sexually attracted to men, like I was "programmed" to want to have sex with them and repopulate the Earth. However, I rarely have romantic feelings for men, and don't find them attractive in contexts outside of straight-up sex. I have strong romantic feelings for women, though, and hence I actively try to date women. Personally I put more value and emphasis on emotional connection, and am confident that once I'm emotionally connected with someone, I can have then have physical intimacy with them no problem. Hence I date women, but I don't write off men completely as well as, like you, I don't think romantic feelings should be restricted to gender (for me personally that is). Also, if I find them attractive and compatible emotionally, I will date nonbinary folks as well.

    I don't have a very strong "base" sexual attraction to women; although I find them aesthetically attractive, it's not the same "lustful" feeling I get towards men. However, I've had occasional circumstances when I've been so infatuated with women that I want to be with them "body and soul" to put it cheesily.

    Still, in a way all of this is conjecture because I have very little relationship experience and absolutely no actual sexual experience with another party. So this is all my own theory of myself!

    If people (or dating websites lol) ask me for a label I usually put the umbrella term "queer." If people outside the LGBTQ community (who are unfamiliar with the language) ask me for a quick answer sometimes I'll say "gay" or if I have time say "queer" and explain a little.

    Just my two cents :slight_smile:
     
  3. dreamer2891

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    Many Asexuals still have romantic attraction without sexual attraction - so if you can have one without the other, I'm sure you can have both and have them separate.

    speaking from myself I experience split attractions WITHIN one gender, meaning as a gay man - I'm sexually attracted to one type of guy and romantically attracted to another 'type' of guy - and they exist quite separately - never the two shall cross - its very strange!
     
  4. A Mindful Wolf

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    Well...there's sexual attraction, then actual sex...theory is often different in practice...
     
  5. SHACH

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    I would say... some straight girls find it fun to make out with other girls, but they never want to actually have sex and such. So that could be the same with you making out with guys.
     
  6. Chip

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    If we are using the credible, widely-used definition of asexuality then we're talking about a hardwired lack of any interest in sex (this includes so-called "romantic attraciton".) There is another definition, one that has absolutely no basis or grounding in anything measurable and, therefore, can mean 100 different things depending on whose definition you use. That definition has been promoted by a tiny community of folks, but it isn't widely accepted by anyone outside of that small group.

    The issue here is, what a lot of people describe as "romantic attraction" is basically a deep emotional bond with another person that we care very much about, but have no sexual desire for. And there's a word we've used for centuries to describe that sort of connection. It's called "friendship." Granted, it's a deep and emotionally bonded friendship, but it is a friendship nonetheless.

    So in that regard, most certainly, someone who is asexual would be capable of maintaining deep, emotionally vulnerable and connected friendships.

    For the most part, people who describe differences between romantic and sexual orientations are (at least from the anecdotal data that's around) typically dealing with self-acceptance issues and the separation is a part of the "bridge" that many people create while going through the 'bargaining' stage of self-acceptance of being gay. Typically, that looks like "Well, I know I like the same sex, but I stlll feel connection to the opposite sex, so it's possible I could still end up with someone of the opposite sex." Before this unsupported idea of a separation between romantic and sexual orientation, people in this phase often self-identified (usually incorrectly) as bisexual, but the separate romantic and sexual orientations is more in vogue now.

    Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and what I'm describing is based on current thinking among professionals in the field... but people are certainly free to choose whatever labels they wish that work for them. It's just important that when we're communicating about labels to people seeking to choose ones that best fit... that they have accurate information on which to base their decisions. Whatever they choose, once they have the info to look at (or reject) is up to them.
     
  7. dreamer2891

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    Its interesting to here about this, although from my experience like I mentioned I have two different types within one gender - how do you explain that?

    I came out as gay at 16, and never had a denial phrase. Also I feel your wrong when you say romantic attraction is basically friendship... I experience 'sensual' attraction which is basically physical attraction without wanting genital sex as an act!

    Asexuality isn't really a separate orientation, more often it is about sexual expression within an already existing orientation identity, whether it be hetro, homo, pan etc.

    some people are sexuality attracted to people BUT don't actually want or like sex, some people are only sexually attracted to only a small amount of people, others don't feel sexuality attracted until they know someone etc
     
  8. cakepiecookie

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    Well, I don't think it's been studied in depth, so it's not surprising that there's no scientific proof. This type of discussion has come about fairly recently, so we're still figuring out what it all means. Perhaps it'll be more clearly scientifically defined in a few decades from now?

    In the meantime, I don't think it makes much sense to cast doubt on someone else's subjective experiences. If you feel a difference between your sexual and romantic attractions, then that's what's real for you, regardless of whether or not other people get it.

    That being said, it's also possible that you'll identify your feelings differently as you grow older and learn more about yourself. I know I've had a few shifts over the years as I've learned more about myself and become aware of new concepts and definitions.

    For what it's worth, I do feel a difference between romantic and sexual attraction. My sexuality sounds fairly similar to yours.
     
  9. Chip

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    The issue is, sexual orientation has been studied for 60+ years, exhaustively, over thousands of studies with hundreds of thousands of people, in many different cultures worldwide, using a variety of different methodologies, both qualitative and quantitative.

    If this separation actually existed, it's pretty inconceivable that it would not have come up 30+ years ago, particularly in the qualitative research that's been done.

    As for the different attractions and types within one gender (or even among multiple genders)... that's all part of the normal spectrum of human attraction. Many people only feel attraction to people with certain attributes, while others have very wide attraction. Again, all completely normal and not outside of ordinary sexual attraction.

    Asexuality, as the term is widely understood and has been used for decades is, in fact, a sexual orientation in the same way that homo and heterosexuality is. Within the past few years, a tiny splinter group, with no credible data or research whatsoever to support their viewpoint, has created a different definition that's impossible to pin down. But when we are talking about sexual orientation as the term is properly understood, it is fixed and unchanging from everything we currently know.

    The so-called expressions within the existing identities (which is yet another definition to add to the list of various ungrounded definitions I've heard over the past few years) are more accurately described as variations within the spectrum of sexual attraction and arousal.

    Now if, when someone gets the flu, and as a result, has no sexual desire as a result, they want to label themselves "asexual"... they're certainly welcomed to do that. Likewise, someone who is depressed is unlikely to have any sexual desire, and that person wants to label him or herself asexual even though what they're experiencing is a side-effect of the primary condition... again, they're welcomed to use that label. But it's important to differentiate those, uh, 'alternative' definitions from the studied and widely accepted ones so that people who are trying to identify themselves and understand themselves don't inadvertently mis-identify and end up 5 years down the road being really unhappy that they mis-identified (as we've seen happen many times here at EC.)
     
  10. LooseMoose

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    I think the attraction separation between romantic and sexual attraction comes from a difference between the 'nature' v. 'nurture' parts of orientation & from the fact that sex is binary, whilst gender is not.


    On the one hand physical sex exist- people are wired into their physical, sexed bodies in certain ways, and I believe that physical sexual orientation is also wired in this way.

    But there is also a whole lot more to a person than their sex and gender - and many people display personality characteristics which are somehow "gender neutral".

    Which of those characteristics we find attractive emotionally or sensually is often a matter of nurture- we are attracted to aspects which depend on our development, and our experience- eg. we develop to like certain foods, because they gave us a positive experience in the past, etc..

    At the same time we internalise societal heterosexual love narratives, especially for women those narratives often involve a development from 'strong friendship' to 'love', etc. and with all this it is often the case that we project our romantic feelings and ideas of love onto people who display certain characteristics we have learned to associate positively.

    It has little to do with the "hard-wired" part of our sexuality, but more to do with how we have learned to bond with others.

    We all seek bonds with each other- its just that in this society we are taught to associate any intimate bond in a sexual way, and we are "by default" socially moulded to assign more meaning to bonds with the opposite sex.

    Hence for people who are discovering their hard-wired sexuality a bit later, they might find that their bond-seeking behaviour has developed out of sync with their sexuality.

    This "out of sync" is "real" in the sense that some people experience it, but it is not "real" in the sense that it is "permanent", or "hardwired", becoming aware of it is part of the self- acceptance. And self- acceptance does not come through finding more labels for yourself, but through learning to live in synch with your own feelings.
     
    #10 LooseMoose, May 1, 2016
    Last edited: May 1, 2016