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Trying to understand who I am

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by baristajedi, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. baristajedi

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    Hi there, this is my first post on this board. I have always had questions about my gender, but things are really coming to the surface lately. And the main question I have going around in my head is - who am I? What's my gender?

    Some background- I suppose most people know me as a tomboy, all of my life I have connected more to boys/guys, I have gravitated towards male interests and have disliked feminine clothes and interests. From about age 3-10ish I believed I was a boy. I thought that everyone was confused about my gender and that soon they'd learn I was actually not a girl. I believed as well that I had a penis that just hadn't yet grown, and soon it would develop. I dressed as a boy, cut my hair like a boy and referred to these things as my boy's clothes/haircut.

    It was around puberty that I first started to dress more femininely for a bit. But this never felt right to me at all. I always felt confused and awkward. I could never figure out how to stand or sit like I was "supposed to" as a girl. I never felt like I fit in as a female. I did start to express myself more like me from 20-27 and felt relatively ok with my gender, as a tomboy or kind of androgynous girl. Then from 27 onwards I felt pressure again to conform and not be myself again.

    Fast forward to now. I've just a year ago come out of the closet as gay at 36 years old, and have been since then really started being myself much more. But no matter how much I reclaim my tomboy clothes and hair, I can't quite get comfortable with understanding my gender. I don't really understand why I'm considered a woman. Though I'm not sure I'm not a woman. This has been puzzling me for some time.

    And now, just the last few weeks, I've been imagining I have a penis. It's not a conscious decision to think about it, I just sort of feels like it's supposed to be there. In these moments, I know it belongs there and I almost feel like I can feel it attached to my body.

    I do not have what I think of as dysphoria... I'm not unhappy per se with any of my female parts, including my breasts. I am happy though that I have a small chest, as I feel it makes more sense for my body.

    I'm not really sure what any of this means, and to be honest it's on my mind a lot. I'd say 90% of my day is taken up by thinking about this. But I don't feel upset or anxious about it.


    Can anyone relate to any of this? Does anyone have any thoughts on how I can understand myself better?
     
    #1 baristajedi, Sep 27, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  2. stoutdriver79

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    The phantom penis is usually a sign gender dysphoria. I know that for some it's kinda just a shadow and for some they feel like they do have a penis, just there, they can describe it, they can feel it flop around when they walk more so in the shower or when they are naked. A close friend of mine who is fairly feminine wears a packer around just to put something physical in the place her brain is saying is there. Hers is right above her clitoris. She gets extremely frustrated when she feels aroused but is not able to use the penis she feels is there.

    I have phantom sensations of female genitalia and its quite vivid too I feel it behind my testes. I have a sensation of breasts that I feel are there, large, heavy, and sometimes sore. I can feel them move when I move. I have been wearing large breast forms to help with this too by the advice of my therapist.

    I am pretty masculine too, I have a stocky build etc.
     
    #2 stoutdriver79, Sep 27, 2016
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  3. Mihael

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    Or a random noise in the brain/some sensory misinterpreted thing. I personally wouldn't bother with that. To be honest. Nature is full of curiousities.

    Everything might mean whatever you make of it... It could be that you're trans, it could be that you're non-binary, it could be that it's just the way it it and you're gender non-conforming... Listen to your gut. To what makes sense to you, what feels right or off. What you want, what makes you happier. I don't know, it's such a vague thing, everything can be reasoned one way or the other.
     
  4. looking for me

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    phantom body parts are a box you can check off when deciding if you are trans* or not. I've had them. the other parts of your post resonate as well, my therapist said the answers are inside us. introspection is very important, along with questions like if I were.... how would I feel? would I be happy? happier? if I stay the way I am would I be happy? if I change 'something', what do I want/need to change and how much? how does this effect my circle? family? it is expensive, how far can you afford to go?

    all questions to think about. and if I can be any help I'll do what I can.(*hug*)
     
  5. BrookeVL

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    I can definitely relate to the phantom body parts thing. It's not constant, but it does pop up from time to time. More so with boobs than genitals though.

    You sound pretty trans to me Jedi, but then I can't even figure out if I am myself, so maybe take that with a grain of salt.
     
  6. oh my god I

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    Can I ask something kinda ... uh... well,

    What does the phantom penis mean to you? What do you want to do with it?

    I think that's more important than whether or not you feel it there.

    Transition is a specific set of solutions. They're only useful if they solve the problem you happen to be having. So that's how I would suggest thinking about it.
     
    #6 oh my god I, Sep 27, 2016
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  7. looking for me

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    Trans is such a broad umbrella. I feel, based on my own journey, that the feeling of a body part that isn't actually attached biologically to you is reason enough to count it. what you want to 'do' with it is a personal matter.
     
  8. baristajedi

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    I didn't realised that a phantom penis could be a type of gender dysphoria. I'm still at the point where that particular feeling is new and I want to live with it for a while to understand it better.

    I've already been considering getting a packer. I think it might be something that makes me feel more complete...or at least more relaxed.

    Do you feel better when you wear the breast forms? Does it help your gender dysphoria?

    ---------- Post added 28th Sep 2016 at 11:09 AM ----------

    At this point, I really don't now what this feeling means yet, and I'm definitely at the point where I'm mostly trying to listen to myself and understand it better. But it definitely does feel significant to me. I have always had a lot of questions about my gender, and this feels like some part of that.

    ---------- Post added 28th Sep 2016 at 11:10 AM ----------

    I'll be back to respond to more in just a bit...have to run for a little bit right now.
     
    #8 baristajedi, Sep 28, 2016
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  9. BrookeVL

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    I'm in the same place Jedi. Just trying to live with these feelings so I can come to understand them better. Listening to myself to understand things better.
     
  10. baristajedi

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    This is really helpful, lookingforme, thank you. I'm trying to think about those questions and some of them are still s bit fuzzy for me. I just don't know right now, and I suppose it will take time to feel the answers.

    If I were a man, how would I feel? - I honestly don't know if I would be happier.

    If I stay the way I am, would I be happy? - If this refers to surgical changes....I don't know. But I can say without hesitation that other changes are definitely needed in terms of my gender expression for me to feel happy.

    If I change something, what do I want/need to change and how much? - I know I need to change more in terms of my clothes. I want more male and androgynous clothes. I know I need to work on being more comfortable being myself in terms of the way I sit, stand, walk, etc. I am thinking a lot about getting a packer. Do I want surgery? If I did, it would be bottom surgery but maybe not top surgery. In some moments, for a brief surge of time, I feel like my body was really meant to have a penis. It feels like it's missing. But those points of time pass and then I don't think about it for a bit. I'm really not sure what that means just yet.

    In terms of family and money and so on, wow, yeah that seems insurmountable honestly at the moment. I feel overwhelmed at the thought of explaining it to my daughter for example.

    I am going to use these questions to inspire more questions to help my introspection. This is really helpful.

    ---------- Post added 29th Sep 2016 at 12:36 AM ----------

    I definitely, like you, feel like I'm not totally cis. But I wonder, am I nonbinary? I had a really strong vision yesterday of myself with breasts and a penis. Something sbout that felt natural and correct.

    I definitely feel like I need more time for it all to sink in.

    ---------- Post added 29th Sep 2016 at 12:42 AM ----------

    This is a good question, thanks for getting me to think about this.

    Mostly, it just feels like something that should be 'there', like its existence makes sense. Just the knowledge that it's there seems like something that would give me a sense of things feeling "right".

    This may sound quite weird, but I have this sense that my movement, like the way I walk, would feel better with a penis. I don't really know how to articulate that very well.

    And I often imagine just reaching down and knowing its there

    And yes I do imagine it as something I could stroke <blush> and feel the erection, and having sex... But these are not the feelings that have come through first, and they're not the only feelings. I don't want to give an impression that this is purely a sexual desire. But it does seem to me that sex makes more sense with me using my penis.
     
  11. gravechild

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    Have you tried reading trans narratives? If you are, you should go, "Aha!" or at the very least, it shouldn't be completely unfamiliar. I felt that way when discovering genderqueer and non-binary terms.

    Of course, many gay men and women have always felt at odds with gendered expectations, roles, expressions... take butches or drag queens. They seem to occupy a space between plain old cis and trans. Pre-natal hormones are thought to be responsible for orientation and some of the more obvious differences between straight and gay populations.

    Some will say only a professional can tell you, but the fact that even after coming out as gay, you feel uncomfortable, should be a possible sign. Chaz Bono describes something similar during a lesbian gathering in his book, and I feel the same way around queer men (they're awesome, don't get me wrong!)

    Another controversial view I've seen around is that if you have to ask if you're trans, you probably are.
     
  12. stoutdriver79

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    To the OP. You asked if I feel any kind of relief when I wear my breast forms. A resounding yes. When I put them on, my fiance says I'm calmer, more attentive, and I feel like I'm me. I do wear them out sometimes if I go to a place like a gay club or something. I chose very large forms mostly because I feel that is what I have. I tried small forms but they didn't seem to help. But there are times where I just want to be a dude with big boobs, so we are similar opposites, if that makes sense.

    You want to be female, keep your breasts, etc, but have a penis too? You shouldn't feel like you have to wear a packer, but if something so simple can calm those feelings, I'd say give it a try.
     
  13. BrookeVL

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    Jedi, I know how you feel about the genitals. I sometimes expect to reach down and my penis NOT be there.
     
  14. oh my god I

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    Hmm, well, those are some things to keep thinking about.

    If possible, I would suggest waiting until you notice some specific situations in your life where these feelings naturally occur to you. Like, when they just pop up, even if you're not already thinking about it.

    And then ask, what triggered these feelings right now?

    And regardless of whether or not it's realistic right now, what would make me feel better? What is my urge in this moment?

    Can I just be gently honest here? I worry about people in your situation. If I remember correctly, you're in a relationship with a trans woman and these feelings were something that began only after you had already been in the trans community to some degree. Right? (I'm not trying to assume and I've only seen a few of your posts so please correct me if I'm wrong)

    The reason I'm suggesting caution is because it's easy to underestimate the power of the desire to fit in. We are social creatures. When we're surrounded by people who are a certain way, we naturally feel pressure to be that way too. We want to fit in and we want to suppress the ways that we don't fit in. If 10 people continuously tell you your reality is a certain way, eventually you will probably believe them. In fact even if just 1 person does. It's hard to resist this kind of social feedback.

    Combined with the fact that many trans people actually are eager to see signs of being trans in other people, which is something I personally don't understand. Everyone is an individual and needs their own unique solutions for their unique life. When you go to a doctor worried, like, do I have cancer?? They never go, oooh yes. Your belly looks a little full today, and your color is somewhat off, that very well might be cancer! Probably is even! ...Because they get this question all the time and 99% of the time the person objectively does not have cancer.

    But when you are affirmed like that it certainly does give you the sense of "yeah, I fit in with the group." And that can feel good and it can even create a desire to find more and more ways in which you fit in.

    None of this is necessarily to say you aren't trans, or that you are cis. But, I'm just saying that if transition is something you need, you will feel it even without questioning or trying to figure it out. You said you don't really have dysphoria right now. So my advice is just to focus on living your life as normal and if the feelings keep coming up, then that is a sign that you should keep giving them more consideration.

    And I'm only giving this advice, regardless of how unpopular it is, because transition is something where, if you do it, even just a little bit, it has permanent results. Reading the stories and frustrations of detransitioned women who now essentially have to deal with a new set of dysphoria (the same kind of dysphoria I have to deal with) makes me very sad.
     
  15. BrookeVL

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    I know this isn't my thread, but thank you. This advice is applicable to my situation as well, and I plan on using it.

    Jedi, take her advice. I think we both need to.:icon_wink
     
  16. Mihael

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    Genital talk? Okey :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: Then, experiencing that myself, I would treat that as either a sign of something neurological or identification with men. It wouldn't be strange if you identified with men to some degreee, since you identify as a tomboy and a lesbian. Either way, you have to ask yourself why it bothers you, what implications do you expect, why you ask about it, and so on. In my opinion, there is a couple of separate questions that need to be anwsered:
    1. Do I want to transition? Medically, socially (e.g. pronouns, name). If yes then how?
    2. How do I want to present? How do I want to look? How do I want to dress? What do I want to communicate with it? Do I want to communicate something with it? Do I think that gender norms of appearance are BS and just do whatever I want, whatever that means?
    3. Same apllies to activities.
    4. Who am I? How do I identify? With whom? Why? How do I call it?
    5. What is me, what is imposed from the outside?

    So... There is nothing to the phantom parts per say. You want to be the most feminine woman in the world and feel phantom parts? You rock it. You want to transition to male and get SRS? You rock that too. It doesn't determine who you are or what you have to do, although it would be convenient to have such roadmarks. "If my eyes are green, then I'm of Viking ancestry and will make a great fisherwoman". Well, who knows? It might or might not be true. People like roadmarks, and I like roadmarks too, but in the end it's down to us and what we think is a better choice for us.

    Ha ha, I never met a lesbian IRL... Nor do I feel the need to. At least yet. But I feel somewhat odd with straight women. The way I experience my sexuality has always been different in some fundamental way. Because I'm a tomboy. Or something.
     
  17. Mihael

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    I mean, sorry for being a mess, my mind consumed much more maths than even close to average. I do calculus while sleeping, and multiply matrices without writing it down, so don't treat me as sane :wink: I don't know how to talk to people.

    Nevermind. I don't get anything about it all. Like identifying as a gender, I'm always like "yes, okey then... whatever you say... don't expect me to understand". It doesn't mean I don't have a gender though, just like if I don't uderstand how liver functions, doesn't mean I don't have a liver. But seriously, it's complicated. By the amount of worries you have about it, you already opened the can of worms. Oh my God, I'm such a mess today. So, I don't think there's anything bad about questioning your gender even if you end up cis. I might end up cis, who knows, even though a couple of months ago I identified as trans. But. The whole questioning process took away from me the an enormous discomfort with being a woman, and a feeling of being alien to that. I see myself doing things I never could for years. So even as a process of unlearning expectations, it can be beneficial. Am I cis? I think I'll better leave this question alone, because language has this special feature that it wasn't created by me but the outside world, and hence cannot grasp easily something that makes sense to me internally.

    A lot of things can happen. I'm a techie chick. Do i meet many women on a daily basis? No. Do I relate to women? Not so much. The chicks I meet in "fieldwork" are a ton more "feminine". I'm putting it in quotation marks, because that's what's considered "normal", aka average. But that's it. If I'm more like a dude on the inside, should I then think there is something wrong with me? Also, if I'm a nerd, should I think so? No. Hell no. If somebody has a problem with it, they have a problem with it, not me. The whole issue of gender has so many aspects. Also, I recon that a major part of my gender issues came from the inability to identify with my mom. Because in many ways we are polar opposites personality-wise. Cognition-wise. There are a lot of factors to take into account. It may very well be the case that.

    Nevertheless, I prefer playing with my gender presentation to just looking like a woman all the time. It makes people relate to me in a different manner, which I prefer.

    So the point being probably... the five questions. And well, sorry if this post is too self-centred, but I hope it makes it easier to relate what I'm saying to physical reality. I don't intend to impose anything, just offer some line of thinking, a "skeleton" for thinking about those issues. Even some points you could disagree on, probably, because that's some start and some way forward.

    ---------- Post added 29th Sep 2016 at 10:59 AM ----------

    Something to discuss on, compare yourself against.

    ---------- Post added 29th Sep 2016 at 11:22 AM ----------

    Sorry, I wanted to delete,but it's 10 minutes apparently? I just, somehow, relate. Because expression-wise, I don't like being very feminine either, and feel similarily about the bits, but I don't feel dysphoria over being a female per say. Yeah, dysphoria... That's another point to consider. Those who transition more often then not, if not always, struggle with gender dysphoria, which I can't talk about, because I haven't felt that probably. Unless discomfort with gender expression counts as such.

    ---------- Post added 29th Sep 2016 at 11:24 AM ----------

    By expression I mean here all the clothes, hairstyles, gestures, behaviours and the such.
     
  18. oh my god I

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    @clustergazelle

    Good luck!!!!!! (*hug*) hope you can figure things out.

    (sorry if this is getting too OT but) I think this is also a really good point that we don't talk about enough in the trans community. Family of origin issues tend to shape our most fundamental perceptions of gender. I know that had a huge influence on my relationship to gender and it took years to untangle what comes from being trans vs. what comes from my family. For me it was this "bargaining" kind of thing. Like allowing myself to transition but not to be too visibly feminine so I would blend in rather than risk trying to be close to other women and being rejected. Even though personally I really liked girly shit and really wanted to be a part of those things. But my mom never fit in with other women, in fact nobody ever took her seriously, and like it or not I learned from that example. For the longest time I would have rather done anything else, anything and everything I didn't really enjoy or care about, just to not give people the chance to reject me for who I really wanted to be. Because really inside I was also rejecting my mom and refusing to risk becoming all the things I resented about her.
     
  19. LarryLC

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    I think we know who we are when we're young. Before all that brainwashing throws us into denial of who we are.

    I knew I was boy when I was 5. And then I slowly got brainwashed into believing that I couldn't be a boy. Finally came out as trans when I was 42.