LGBT News Islamic school teaching pupils ‘homosexuality is disease’ to shut down (VIDEO)

I'm referring to homophobia and that homosexuality is a disease/sin/choice; after re-reading my post I realize that this isn't clear, sorry about that. I think nearly everyone on this forum would agree with me that that is crap.

 

I'm enjoying reading the very guarded responses in this thread. If the school was a Christian one, there would have been much outrage and gnashing of molars (or dentures) not mentioning the inevitable rants in this thread.

As someone who has read passages from the Qu'ran, I can say that Islam hates anyone identifying as LGBT, no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it in your attempts to be politically correct for fellow ''minorities''. Christianity focuses on the New Testament, which is more accepting of everyone. Indeed, the most Christians have done for me is pray for my soul.

 

Ahh thank you. Homophobia is indeed foolish, and it's sad that many Christians look at their LGBT brothers and sisters with a hypocritical eye.

Matthew 7:2-6
"For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you."

Something to keep in mind that homosexuality to some is not chosen but to others it is. I personally believe people are both 'born gay' but also 'want' or 'choose' to be gay (Two separate groups). Many say that sexuality is 'fluid', so it's entirely possible for a straight person to start leaning towards being gay and vice-versa, though for others I fully believe it's ingrained and not so fluid.

When it comes to the Bible, sex outside of marriage is a sin (fornication), so homosexual sex or not it falls under that umbrella. There are many sins in this world, some graver than others, but it is very much unfair and hypocritical for anyone to claim they are better than another person or that their sin is much worse than theirs since we are all sinners by definition.

The point of the Gospel and Jesus paying for people's sins was that in a court of law by committing sin/wrong we are worthy to be judged/condemned, but out of God's love and mercy He gives all a free pardon if they accept Christ as the payment for sin.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast"

The idea being that a person cannot earn Heaven by being holier or better, or giving more money, bribing, etcetera.
As for commandments or laws concerning how a Christian ought to live, it's written

Romans 13:8-10
"Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

And again in Galatians

Galatians 5:13-15
"For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another."

It's unfortunate that many people who don't actually understand what it fundamentally means to be a Christian often bark and bite the loudest, causing dissension and in turn striving to be consumed by one another; the media loves a good story that raises controversy as well. Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; ..."

My heart goes out to those that were deceitfully used or improperly treated in hypocrisy, and I hope you weren't hurt by evil people that lack understanding. =[

Hosea 6:6 "For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings."

 

The Qur'an really isn't anymore "anti-gay" than the Bible is, commanding an unspecified punishment for "lewdness", which while it implies homosexuality, is nothing near the explicitness of the Leviticus directive. Now of course we can write it off by saying Christianity "focuses on the New Testament", but it does not disregard the Old Testament. And of course the Pauline epistles do indicate that "homosexuals" (if that is indeed how one most accurately translates "arsenokoitai") will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Is that a justification for hatred? No, but we must recognize the extent to which Muslim opposition to homosexuality is rooted in non-religious aspects of culture. It isn't accurate to portray the Qur'an as some kind of "hate book" and act as if the Bible is immune from a similar kind of judgment.

 

Are you saying that 'not entering the kingdom of heaven' (which most LGBT folk don't even believe in anyway; even I don't believe in it, I think people want to think of an afterlife because they can't bear the idea of 'just dying') equates to pushing gays off buildings or cranes? Predominantly Islamic countries have the most abysmal human rights records, and as for LGBT folk, it's almost certain-death for us.

 

Oh I'm not denying that many Muslim nations have abysmal human rights records, especially when it comes to LGBT folks, I just meant that throwing gays off rooftops isn't justified by the Qur'an and thus not grounds to judge all of Islam. Not for that reason at least.

 

Frankly it doesn't matter how they do it, but if their authorities don't get to you first, their people will kill you. We're considered sinful by even the modern Muslims, who largely do nothing. Those that come from Islamic countries will however react, and very easily. Statistics show compelling evidence that LGBT rights are most horrendous in places which are predominantly Islamic. Russia is also mentioned, but it's safer even than Turkey in terms of being LGBT.

 

This isn't quite right but I'll try to go over it best I can.

It is but let me give some context. In Levitical times, the Jewish people were given laws and commandments to help govern their lives and livelihood, some were basic and fundamental to the morality at the time (Do not murder, steal etcetera) and some were more governmental ("When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it."). Many laws were also food laws and given to help keep the Israelites pure+clean. Pork for example is hard to cook and prone to parasites, similar for some seafood. So sexual commands and laws followed the same theme, that it may be inherently immoral or itself dangerous (STDs and the like).

So these commands given to the Jews were relevant to the time in which they lived, and all throughout the scripture it was understood that when the Messiah (Jesus/Yeshua) came the covenant would change and adapt accordingly.

In the Quran there are Meccan verses and Medinan verses, and within line of the Doctrine of Abrogation the verses that came latter chronologically in matters of conflict or confusion always supersede the former/earlier. This is why people are saying Islam fundamentally is /not/ a religion of peace because before Muhammad died he gave battle orders, read Surah 9:29 and 9:30 if you're interested. The historical context with this is that in Mecca before Islam was large and he was surrounded by polythesists and 'People of the Book', his verses were much calmer and more politically correct to the environment he was in. When he later fled for his life across a desert to Medina he gained military power, and thus the 'not so nice' verses came. Many Muslims are not even fully aware of the Doctrine of Abrogation, especially ones born within Western or Judeo-Christian societies.

Remember, there are two covenants, the Christians follow the latter one of the "New Testament" and the Jews are under the "Old Testament". Christians are not under the 613 Levitical laws of the Old Testament, but you are right; the O.T is full of history, proverbs, prophecies and truths that do have relevance to our modern day and understanding of Biblical exegesis. However, it is clearly stated that anyone who is a Christian that tries to follow the old Law or seeks to be justified by the Law, is fallen from grace and has to do everything under the law should they chose that path (Which isn't possible these days).

Sexual immorality is described as sin that is 'committed against the body', so it's heavily warned that if a person sins sexually they will experience many problems physically and spiritually. It's not that being a homosexual is a problem (Many of the first Christians were homosexual), it's actively having sex that a problem comes into play. It also says that drunkards, thieves, liars and others won't enter either if they actively commit these sins. I've been overly drunk before, stolen before, lied before, but I know that the things I do are wrong so I avoid doing them (repent) as best I can because I'm not behaving in a loving or truthful way if I do.

The idea of sin/wrong is that it's doing something that is not right/good. In order to do something wrong, we need to know and judge what it would be to do it rightly. You can only know what evil is when you know what good means, it sets the bar or standard. To act unloving, to defy the good/right thing of being loving and as such is 'sin'. To drink so much that you hurt your own body or behave inappropriately is 'wrong', because to take care of one's body and behave appropriately is 'right'. That's essentially what the meaning boils down to.

As for arsenokoitai and malakoi, the meanings are debated since Paul himself invented the word, some believe arsenokoitai may be referring to pederasty or pedophilia (Many Romans actively had boy-lovers on the side even when in heterosexual marriages), some think it's a blanket statement for any form of same-sex engagement.
I leave it up to the discretion of the individual to judge their own meaning on it.

Of course not, this is where a lot of Christians fall into error, because lgbt or not they are your brothers and sisters.

It is because again there is context within these verses and meanings. The narrative of the Bible and the message of Christ/God is "Love God, and love your neighbour as yourself". That God loves everyone (believer or unbeliever) so everyone can go to Heaven since Christ paid for everyone's sins, but if they don't want to know God or want that then they can pay for their own sins, and God is so loving that even if a person does not want to be with God that He will grant that as well (Reluctantly).
I gave verses earlier showing that, but that is the direct message of the Gospel and what it means to be a child of God.

1 Corinthians 13
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."



Conversely:

Quran 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran 9:30 "And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

Quran 3:28 "Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying."

Ibn Kathir is one of the most beloved Muslim scholars, and he had some commentary for this verse
"Ibn Kathir on 3:28—Allah said next, (unless you indeed fear a danger from them) meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, "We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.'' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, "The Tuqyah is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.''"


Qur’an 3:31-32—Say [O Muhammad]: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

Qur'an 30:35 "that He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.




Matthew 5:43-47
"“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?"

Matthew 11:25-30
"At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”"




Islam is actually antithetical to Christianity on a fundamental basis.

 

This is sad that there is so much bigotry in society it's good they shut it down tho the fact that there are so many labels in society is the reason why there is so much wrong in the world it's also organized religion that causes a lot of problems to to teach someone that something is wrong when it's not is not right love is love even if it's between a Man and a Man or a Women and a Women or a Man and a Women

 

To be fair, "the government" doesn't exist either, so government schools should also be shut down.

Just to be clear in case anyone is thinking it, no I don't mean "children shouldn't have school/learn to read and write/etc.

 

Lol what? The government obviously exists.

 

They gets it.

 

Quite so. It exists as a concept, like the global market, adoption, insults, etc.
The government however, has it's own buildings and workers. You can physically touch a president, their establishment, their documents. It has a purpose and a function along with tangible leaders.

These deities on the other hand are said to be a real individual being though, but rely solely on the words of "underling" churchgoers. Think of it like the US government being lead by a faceless president who is never seen or proven to be there at all. "Big brother is watching over you" type thing. They only have indirect depictions, and in the case of Islam they aren't even allowed to construct depictions in the first place.

One is created by humanity and has a typical observable effect of order on the world. The other claims to be an all powerful entity, and is left with only humanity to spread chaos. I feel it is an unfair comparison since government leaders actually sit down and hold discussion after the invention of the camera.

 

I always viewed people who are totally brainwashed by their religion as inferior to atheists. So many of them give excuses about God and whatever, the truth is they cant even take another stand point wihout having to rely on "God's perspective" which is ultimately interpreted, suggesting that the original meaning can be distorted as well.

 

I completely agree. There are even people on this thread who are trying to compare the existence of government to religion, two completely different concepts. Its laughable.

 

After the Orlando attacks I was a little bit of an islamophobe as well, until I realized that the west (especially the United States) use the very little knowledge that people have about Islam for imperialistic purposes, to invade, steal oil from the middle east etc. Maybe it was yet another inside job to make gay people conservative bigots. Don't fall into that, please. Islam is not more homophobic than Christianity or protestantism