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Shakespeare

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by Sartoris, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. Sartoris

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    Early last month, I bought myself a copy of the Oxford edition of his complete works at a used bookstore, an ideal edition if (like me) you're overwhelmed with all those collections or individual copies littered with notes and explanations and, occasionally, prefer diving right in regardless of comprehensibility.

    Prior to this year I've read a number of his plays, and perhaps only one or two more than once, and have had a guarded respect; able to appreciate the writing, characterisation and so forth but still kept at a distance. Since getting this collection, I've already read about nine plays [three of them being revisits] and my appreciation has grown, especially with watching some performances on DVD in conjunction. However, I'm still a bit intimidated and at times hard to fully connect with even those works I enjoy very much.

    I wanted to create this thread and reach out to any others who enjoy and appreciate his writing, talk about individual works, aspects of his writing, adaptations, whatever you feel like in relation to the subject. :slight_smile:
     
  2. Sketchy

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    Yes a Shakespeare thread! *nerd glasses on*

    I'm actually quite keen on the idea that Shakespeare was more than one person. I read Bill Bryson's 'The World as a Stage' and found it really enlightening. Turns out there is very little recorded history of Shakespeare's existence , never mind his play writing. His whole life is a mystery, and sometimes he appears to pop up at a point in time miles away from where he was the last time he was on record. He's never recorded in Italy, for example, yet many historians argue his depictions of Italian civilisation at the time were accurate - how could he possibly know this? There are also many plays he 'created' that he didn't even finish, and they were polished by the editors of the First Folio. We tend to think that Shakespearean language is 'old-style' and that's why we don't understand, but actually a lot of it was gobbledegook even in those days.

    I'd actually highly recommend companion books like Bill Bryson's to accompany your reading, they really add another textual layer to the pieces.

    Sorry if my writing's all a bit mish-mash. It's been a loooong time since I've been able to talk about Shakespeare.
     
  3. Sartoris

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    Well my writing isn't likely to be less mashy, not having read much about Shakespeare, let alone actively talking or writing about him or his writing. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    When it comes to the authorship question, I'm indifferent leaning toward giving him credit. Maybe it would change after reading more up on it, looking into available documents, etc. However, the usual charges I've heard aren't convincing enough for me to doubt the traditional claim. Given the scale of and variety of printed literature at the time, I'd argue it wasn't necessary for someone to have first-hand experience to write (semi-)accurately about different places, time periods or contexts. Plus it's been noted that virtually all the plays have been based in existing historical chronicles, poems, literature and even other plays that had been extensively retooled.

    Anyway, about the language, I was just wondering about that not too long ago. I can't help wondering how many of the groundlings stood around wondering, "What's a on about?" :lol: Writing of that time, especially for a playwright, is a strange mix of vernacular dialogue mixed with poetic rhetoric. Frankly, if anything still throws me, it's the puns and humor within the plays. Such as "nunnery" both referring to the religious sort, but also a slang term for 'whorehouse.' :eek:

    On a different note, of all the plays I've read, I'd probably say my favorites so far are: Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard II. Though only counting the few I've read more than once.
     
  4. Kodo

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    I appreciate Shakespeare, but you already knew that.
     
  5. Sartoris

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    This is true. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: I can't remember if we talked about it, but how were you introduced?
     
  6. Kodo

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    Curiosity mostly. Shakespeare is a big name in the literary world and I wanted to know what all the adoration was about.

    That and there are a great many filmed plays, with excellent versions by the UK's Royal Shakespeare Company, that I wanted to see. But being a "book first movie second" kind of person I needed to read it first. So I bought a complete works set from a used bookstore, just like you, and dug my metaphorical teeth into it. I still have a lot to go but I greatly appreciate Shakespeare's wording and poetic strength (for example, in Hamlet's famous soliloquy).
     
  7. Sartoris

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    Now that's unusual, since most of us (including myself) are 'force-fed' him at some point during grade school, without the chance of discovering him on our own.

    I've seen a number of adaptations by now, most of them very good films, but honestly don't think I connected? with a performance until seeing a live theatrical one recorded on DVD. It was Twelfth Night as performed by the Globe theatre. Even removed by one step there is a different engagement than seeing it performed for a film, much more lively.

    Speaking of Hamlet, it would be great seeing it performed live, especially by the Globe actors. It's really a bizarre play, not at all a static drama; tons of humor, even up 'til the final scene.
     
  8. GalleyGirl

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    Did my essay on Shakespeare's King Lear- some of his plays are so powerful, it's amazing. But also how much there is about all of them, how many interpretations and potential meanings.
     
  9. OGS

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    Pretty sure I have read and seen them all at this point. Back in the seventies the BBC started these televised versions of stage shows and worked through the catalog. I think they did pretty much all of them over the years. When they would air it was a big deal for my mother and I. We'd pop a big bowl of popcorn and just bask in it. I give my Mother a lot of credit for having faith that an eight year old would appreciate Shakespeare. Later on we would go down to the Utah Shakespeare Festival in Cedar City each year and see a few plays. They had a replica of the Globe Theater there and did the whole Elizabethan greens show and the like. It was wonderful. Later on of course there were other productions and operas and ballets based on his work. I've got lots of great memories associated with the Bard.:eusa_clap
     
  10. Sartoris

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    Is Lear your favorite?

    ---------- Post added 21st Feb 2017 at 07:17 PM ----------

    You have my respect. :eek: I'm trying to delve into the BBC Shakespeare, hopefully Richard II is going to be my first; looked good from the clips seen in the series Shakespeare Uncovered.

    Which plays have you liked the most and, regarding the series, which performances were your favorite?

    I really hope to see a Globe-style performance one of these days, seems incomparable to watching his plays in a traditional theatrical context.
     
  11. OGS

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    You know as far as the BBC stuff I don't really recall. They were all wonderful but I honestly don't think I've seen any of them since they first aired on PBS.

    As far as my favorite of the plays--definitely Macbeth. After that the usual suspects, Lear and Hamlet, oh and Richard III and the Tempest. Skip Pericles, Cymbeline and the Winter's Tale unless you need convincing that anyone can have an off day, even Shakespeare.

    As far as alternative genres, Kiss Me Kate is a musical based on Taming of the Shrew which is wonderful--technically West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet, but Kiss Me Kate is a little more obvious. Also Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet is one of my favorite ballets--and not just because it's got more men in it than most ballets.:lol:
     
  12. Snow

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    I've only read Romeo and Juliet and Julius Caesar, but both were very good and I actually enjoyed reading them in school.
     
  13. AgenderMoose

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    I literally performed in The Tempest at my college last weekend (and...not gonna lie, I'm pretty sure that was my favorite play I've ever done. In general.). What a fitting time for this thread to come to my attention, hehe.

    I started on Shakespeare myself in 5th grade. In the gifted program at my school, we'd perform Shakespeare for the intermediate school kids (5th and 6th grade). The first Shakespeare play I had ever seen to my memory was Hamlet, because some of my siblings were also in the gifted program and I saw their performance when I was younger. The first one I performed in, however, was King Lear. That's what started my love for Shakespeare, really. I read Romeo and Juliet on my own, performed in Twelfth Night and A Midsummer Night's Dream through the gifted program, and I read Julius Caesar for a class in high school, prior to my most recent endeavor with The Tempest.

    I see Macbeth being tossed around. Have you seen the PBS version with Patrick Stewart? Oh my lord, I loved it so much *o*
     
  14. Sartoris

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    In that case, maybe I'll just post my reactions after watching some; have also checked out their production of All's Well That Ends Well.

    That's a hard one to beat, Macbeth moves so quickly but doesn't seem underdeveloped. Richard III probably would be one of my favorites as well, though I'd like to see how it holds up after revisiting for the first time. When I read Tempest a few years ago, I thought it was good but wasn't amazed; am hoping that will change. Really? I've actually been looking forward to Winter's Tale, the others... not so much. :confused:

    I would be very interested in the ballet, mainly because Prokofiev is a composer who I enjoy quite a bit. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: The only loose adaptations I've, mainly, been interested in are Kurosawa films like Throne of Blood and Ran.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Feb 2017 at 11:04 PM ----------

    Romeo and Juliet is a great introduction, it was the first one I read in school as well; while not my very favorite, I still enjoy coming back to it. It's sense of intimacy feels quite different from many of the other tragedies.

    What did you enjoy about Caesar?

    ---------- Post added 22nd Feb 2017 at 11:09 PM ----------

    :eek: What part did you play in Tempest and what about the play made it so enjoyable to perform?

    Fifth grade?! Clearly you and your family had a much different background and upbringing than I did (Haha.) Can only imagine what being exposed to Shakespeare at that age would've been like.

    I've not seen that PBS version, or any aside from the Orson Welles' adaptation. Which is odd, given how much I love(d) it.
     
  15. AgenderMoose

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    Ariel! :icon_bigg

    I think there were a lot of things that made it so enjoyable for me. One was all the cool effects and costumes/props we made to bring everything to life. We actually had TVs onstage under a platform that we put images and whatnot on to help convey the scene, or add something to it. I actually had to film a bit so that when Prospero starts describing when Ariel had previously been imprisoned by Sycorax (Act I, scene 2), there was actually a video of me that played on the TVs that made it look like I was trapped in them.

    Onto costumes and props, my costume flowed really well, which added to the effect of me constantly moving on stage. Which, moving so much also took quite a lot to get used to, but that was the one thing people consistently complemented or mentioned when they spoke to me after the show, so I suppose I did it right. :eusa_danc

    For the harpy scene (Act III, Scene 3), we had a three part prop puppet to use. I had a person on my left and right that held up these huge wings and flapped and extended them as needed. I held the main part in the center, which was black fabric that draped to make the body, and a mask made of a cow pelvis and a horse jawbone. It was heavy as hell, but when we did it right, it gave a cool effect. On top of that, I had a mic that we only used for that scene, to give a strong echo effect to make my speech (that I was already practically screaming) even louder. We also had another prop for the latter half of Act IV that we used to chase Caliban, Stephano, and Trinculo. They were built kinda like riding horses (the horse head on a stick), but the head were cow skulls with these decorated horns coming from them.

    I also really enjoyed working with most of the cast. There were people that I was familiar with and had worked with before, but there were also people that I had never met. Adapting to them and figuring out how to best work on stage with them (especially Prospero, because of all the scenes I had with him) was a great experience.

    Finally, the role was a challenge, and took a lot of work to get right. I flat-out made a playlist of visuals for me to watch to get the idea of how to flow and move to better represent water and air on stage. Ariel is such an interesting character to read and even more interesting to portray and that's an enormous part of why I enjoyed it so much. I love characters that are not only a challenge for me to get right, but are also interesting to examine. I hope I have a performance/opportunity like that again.


    It was definitely interesting, to say the least. :lol: I'm honestly thankful that the teacher that ran the gifted program made the initiative to perform Shakespeare at such a young age. I think it gave me better insight to the theatre world.

    I watched it for a class back in high school. I already got incredibly excited when "Shakespeare" and "Patrick Stewart" were mentioned in the same sentence. It's amazing and I 150% recommend it.
     
  16. Sartoris

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    Can anyone explain how the Multi-Quote function works? :confused:

    I had a strong feeling it was Ariel, how appropriate. :lol:

    The idea of using televisions, for this play, interests me; apart from illustrating past events like Ariel's entrapment, what other images/scenes were projected? How was the costume designed? Just referring to the harpy scene, I can't imagine a young child walking around the stage with a cow pelvis and horse jawbone mask; the more you've described this production, it sounds like a punk rock performance (Haha.)

    Wish I had more insightful things to say about the play; as mentioned, I had a neutral reaction upon the initial reading, on top of not remembering it well. I'm hoping to get around to it in the near future.

    I'll keep the Stewart performance in mind, though incidentally I should be receiving a DVD of one of the Globe Theatre's performances of Macbeth soon.
     
  17. AgenderMoose

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    The TVs also showed general images to convey mood. There were most often color bars or static to display when nothing was happening with them, but we also changed the presentation to Miranda and Ferdinand at the beginning of Act IV from a scene with Iris and Ceres to a video type thing with different clips of romance scenes that were displayed. Also, in Act II, Scene 1, when Antonio first tries to tempt Sebastian into killing his brother to take the kingdom, we had several images of villains and such to reflect the mindset that Antonio had gotten into.

    As for my costume, it had two layers. The base layer was a silver morph suit with the hood cut off, so it was just a skintight silver suit. The thing about morph suits, though, is that they actually have a decent amount of give, so moving isn't an issue. The second layer was a dress/tunic type thing made of some smooth silver fabric. It came down to about my knees and had a diagonal cut. It also had a lot of triangles cut into it, but not entirely cut so there was quite a bit of loose fabric that would add to movement. The tunic also had a lot of decorative blue and silver strands of fabric that made up the top section, by my shoulders and neck, which gave a bit of a puff to the top and also added even more loose items that would move with me. My shoes were ballet slippers that were painted silver to blend in with the rest of me. The ballet shoes really helped with mobility and, even though they weren't at first, they became really comfortable as I rehearsed.

    "Young child", haha, I'm 19 and the play was a week ago, but I guess that could be considered young :roflmao: My director is kind of a punk, it makes sense that it'd seem like some kind of rock performance, especially with all the ideas he gets in his head. Doesn't help that all of the written in songs were cut and replaced with string quartet arrangements of classic rock songs that would play during the scene.

    I can understand not being not too invested in reading it. The Tempest seems a lot more like a play that is better seen or experienced than it is to simply read.

    Oooo a Globe Theatre DVD, that sounds awesome~ I bet it'll be a blast to watch.
     
  18. greatwhale

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    Back in the mists of time (1978), when I was 18, I was accepted into a three-year professional theatre program at a local theatre school. At that tender age, I was introduced to the bawdy, wild and mind-bending William Shakespeare! I had no idea just how lively (as opposed to stuffy) his plays could be, they really do entertain!

    That year, the third-year students were to act in a full-blown production of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, whereas us first-year students (i.e. peons) were put to work on costumes, sets, lights, stage-management, etc.

    The play on stage was wonderful! To me, that is the only way to experience Shakespeare's plays. Scholars generally agree that they were written in a collaborative fashion, with people on the stage acting out in real time the scenes while he or perhaps a few others, wrote down the dialogue. These plays are meant to be on stage as an aircraft is meant to be cruising at altitude. Just reading the plays simply does not do them justice.

    And the language, heavens! The opening lines to Twelfth Night will be forever with me:

    In just one paragraph, you have a complete picture of who Duke Orsino is, a sensualist, a romantic, a man of power...

    If you can go to a performance of any of his plays, go!
     
  19. Sartoris

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    In a way, the televisions and what they projected must've added to the sense of being manipulated or confusion among the characters [since Prospero dominates virtually everything which is going on.]

    Sounds like a well-designed costume, though Ariel is supposed to represent the all the natural elements, I believe, something about their character seems to suggest bright, lighter colors like silver or even blues.

    That's my bad, I conflated your talking about the recent production and the description of the gifted programs, thinking Tempest had been done years ago. :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: That can usually be applied to any play, it's harder to appreciate just written on the page, especially those which aren't out-and-out tragedies. Comedies, understated dramas, romances/fantasy works require much more imagination to envision. I would probably enjoy a performance of The Tempest very much. :slight_smile:

    I'm hoping so! Really enjoyed the one DVD I watched so far, and they have plenty.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2017 at 07:20 PM ----------

    Did you enjoy the theatre program? What you say about the humor and bawdiness is so true, even the history plays and tragedies have quite a bit; sometimes I've only noticed it after, as you say, seeing a performance and discovering how actors can toy with their lines. Still love reading the words, but Elizabethan theatre is definitely meant to engage with a whole audience.

    I'm wondering if this is what the first respondent meant by a 'group of people,' but frankly I've never heard or read about this theory; beyond the usual authorship accusations. Actually reminds me of Mike Leigh, fellow Englishman (Haha,) who creates his films in a sort of guided collaboration as well.

    Sadly I always have missed performances of his plays and we don't get much plain theatre around here it seems. :frowning2:
     
  20. Sartoris

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    Finished watching the BBC Shakespeare production of All's Well That Ends Well and had these thoughts:

    That it definitely helps seeing the plays performed but, for whatever reason, I often have trouble following the dialogue as though it's being spoken a bit too quickly. Shakespeare 'comedies' usually seem to be played very dramatically and deadpan unless there's obvious humor, which I believe is why their reputation traditionally is lower than the tragedies and histories. Finally, it was much more satisfying than the earlier produced Richard II with it's sense of decor, lighting and composition. Very much resembling Dutch paintings, Vermeer and others, despite taking place in France and Italy!