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Waiting for "survival mode" to end.

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Patrick7269, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Patrick7269

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    Hello everyone,

    I want to write about a sense of loss I've been feeling lately. My life is humming along just fine at 44, but I feel more and more like I'm just surviving instead of really living. Can anyone else offer advice or insight please?

    To make a long story short, I come from a fairly conservative blue-collar family in the midwest US. I was accidentally outed when I was 12 (my stepfather walked in on me undressed with his son) and after that the homophobia was constant. We also had problems with domestic violence at home. I "went inside" myself to survive, I became good at music and school to try to win approval, and I just kind of went numb in a way. I didn't take a lot of risks or truly rebel as a teenager, and I went on to college, which wasn't expected in my family. Today I have a solid career, a close-knit circle of friends, and a life of authenticity as an out gay man. Yet I feel a palpable sense of loss and perpetual crisis.

    A therapist once told me that he wanted me to really understand and absorb that I'm a survivor. This was over 7 years ago, and at the time I just scoffed. Now I'm beginning to see that I did survive through several forms of trauma, but as a result I suspect that I'm perpetually in "survival mode". I'm waiting for something bad to happen, as if it must in order for my life to make sense. I feel a deep sense of loss, and yet I have a very put-together life with almost everything I could possibly want!

    When I'm by myself I have an immediate sense of dread for the silence that reminds me that I'm alone. I come home from work and it's as though there's not enough air; a heaviness and a sadness. I turn on something to watch from YouTube, I stream some music, I play the violin, I work on my model railroad, and I draw. I do anything to distract myself so as just not to be present and experience being alone.

    Most of the time I have several social commitments a week, and even I sometimes double-book myself. Some of these things are for career, some for education, some for fun. For the most part I have meaningful interaction with these people, and I even have talked with close friends about some of the pain, but still I feel like I'm alone. I'm connected with others, but I don't feel like it. I have my material needs met, I'm spoiled rotten with friendship, I actually have a lot of privilege, and yet I feel hungry for something. I feel pretty successful and yet always in "survival mode".

    It's so easy to congratulate myself for coming out and making a life for myself (and I do take credit for my accomplishments), but something feels way off. Of course I'm thinking about what I want in a romantic partner, but I don't think I'm capable of really being present in a relationship right now. Honestly I'm not really sure of exactly what I'm feeling or why. This acute, aching swell of "something needing attention inside me" comes up for no apparent reason and at the strangest times.

    I'm having a hard time with comparing myself with straight men, especially fathers. As if I could wave the magic wand of family life to make this ache go away. I know in my head that everyone has challenges, but my heart still envies them. I have an active social life but when I'm home alone the quietness feels like the absence of a family, not the presence of the things I do have. When I'm alone I feel a swell of grief and loss from out of nowhere, and for no apparent reason.

    There must be more in gay middle age than survival. Or even more basic, there must be a way to get my head and heart out of crisis management mode and loss and into peace and gratitude for what I have. Right now I feel like I'm in a battle zone.

    Patrick
     
  2. justaguyinsf

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    I'm really sorry to hear of your struggles, Patrick. I wonder if what you're experiencing as "survival mode" constitutes to a significant degree plain old loneliness. There have been some significant articles published this year on the apparent epidemic of loneliness among gay men.
     
  3. Rana

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    Hi Patrick,
    I'm a woman but I can definitely relate to all that you wrote. I think we all crave the connection with someone special. I know you said you're not ready for that and that's ok. I know the feeling of not having air when you're by yourself. It's loneliness. Sometimes being with a crowd of people that I don't feel connected to makes me feel the same. Have you told your therapist how you feel? Sometimes we get stuck in survival mode, it's not unusual. If you can get to a point where you're ready to date again & meet someone you care about I bet your feelings will change. Having a meaningful relationship is like being in a family in a way. You may feel alone but know that you're not alone in the world. And it will get better. Take care and reach out to a good therapist. ❤️
     
  4. OnTheHighway

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    "Survival Mode" is an interesting way to describe what your experiencing. As I read you post, I was thinking about how you have a desire to find more meaning in your life; and it compares to you described as gay middle age - but what I would simply state is a typical mid life crisis gay or otherwise.

    Isn't all of our lives about the search for meaning? And how we define meaning is actually up to each one of us individually?

    You say you do not think your at a place to have a relationship, but maybe its not a relationship your concerned about, maybe its the idea of making yourself vulnerable to someone else which is more troubling to you?

    Your historical trauma, the survival mode, might have created some form of defense or a protective mechanism stopping you from allowing yourself to open up to others and make yourself vulnerable.

    Maybe its time to take the risk and do so? Whats the worst that can happen?
     
  5. Moonsparkle

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    It may have taken you 7 years, but I am happy you are beginning to accept the therapists words and truly absorb that yes, you are a survivor.

    Being accidentally outed, living in an environment of domestic violence...it is not surprising that you sort of live 'waiting for the other shoe to drop'--perpetually ready to go into crisis management mode. It is also not surprising that you turned inward and threw yourself into your studies, music etc. and that you excel at these things. People find an outlet to deal with a chaotic childhood. Some use negative outlets, some use more positive ways, such as excelling in areas of their life. We all find coping skills that somehow work, or at least seem to.

    I have a 'put together' life too (at least this is how it looks from the outside!). But inside I often struggle so much, no one knowing what is really going on in my head. I have a great therapist, who I see every week or two, and I have gained a lot through the therapy experience. I am exactly like you though, when I get home, I ALWAYS need the TV on. I don't even have to be watching it, but need it there for the background noise-it's like being alone with my thoughts is too much for me. I need sound all the time, music all day at work too.

    I think you have a lot of insight already, and have expressed your experiences quite clearly. The aching swell of something needing attention inside you...though uncomfortable is actually a positive thing in a way. It's a clue that something is not working for you, something needs to be changed. It's an acknowledgement that there 'has to be more' and that you deserve more. How to do that of course is the challenge. And if you are not presently seeing a therapist I would suggest starting to see one again. As a starting point. You can have a lot of gratitude for what you do have, your success, social life, material things etc. but that doesn't mean it's wrong or 'greedy' to want more from life. The desire to get out of survival mode certainly doesn't negate the gratitude you feel for privileges(due to your hard work) that you have in your life.

    As others have mentioned, loneliness could play a big factor here too. I think it does for me, my last relationship ended a few months ago. And I miss it, so much. An active social life is wonderful, but at times if I am in my 'heavy thinking' mode it almost makes me feel lonelier. Being out and social, and then coming home to my empty house. It's like the contrast is too much. So though I can't really give a whole lot of advice I can say that I understand a lot of what you are going through!

    All the best to you.
     
  6. Tomás1

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    Consider the possibility that the angst u feel is not about being gay, not being a father, etc … but is a search for something deeper. Searching can have many directions: for a romantic relationship, career success, artistic or musical proficiency … whatever drives u from within. Usually the searching doesn't lead to complete satisfaction. We look within, at "Who am I?" This was the question the Indian sage Ramana Maharshi suggested. When u continue this inquiry, w some silent meditation … u get out of your head, away from your separate self … to touch the depth of your true nature.

    This probably does not sound like fun … yet the questions u ask r about life meaning. The quest is what it's all about. Find some others near where u live, who u can relate to, as company on the journey. Good luck!
     
  7. greatwhale

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    Hi Patrick,

    It may be worth re-evaluating this feeling, not as something negative, but as something necessary.

    Many moons ago, I wrote a blog on the idea of Katabasis. From what I read of your opening thread, a lot of what you describe ressembles what it is you are going through.

    If you reevaluate this feeling as a positive and necessary sprititual adventure, you may find a kind of peace on the other end of this dark and shadowy tunnel.

    The most important aspect of this recognition as katabasis is that you can find a way of relating and ironically elevating this "descent" that you are going through into the mythical realm.

    Read the section on Katabasis in this article, from which I have extracted the following:

    If you see this as part of a "call to initiation" to a higher and more sublime life, a sublimation of your youth into middle-age, you may find a way through this time in your life with a renewed sense of who you are and who you are likely to become.

    It is not without risk, but nothing worthwhile is. If you can find a guide, possibly a Jungian psychologist with some training in "Shadow" work, you may be able to transform this "survival mode" into something extraordinary.

    Drowning out this "call to initiation" with distractions, whether they be YouTube videos, or superficial social encounters will only delay the inevitable.

    I'll end with a quote from Blaise Pascal:

    In other words, what you need most of all is to go into that shadow space even more deeply, but with a mythical, "hero's journey" mindset...you would do well to read up on what the mythologies of katabasis may have to teach you.
     
  8. Patrick7269

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    These are really helpful responses everyone - thank you! I'll write more tonight after work.

    Patrick
     
  9. Patrick7269

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    Hi all,

    I've been thinking about your responses today and I'm realizing that I'm going through a mixture of grief, loss, disconnection, and a profound sense of loneliness.

    I wrote at length about my feelings because my therapist is asking me to find ways of identifying what I feel. For me writing makes the most sense, but I apologize if I was being tedious. I really struggle with knowing what's inside sometimes.

    Here are my thoughts -

    Justaguyinsf:

    I really wish this weren't the case, because I would like to think that I'm just doing something wrong, and that being lonely isn't intrinsic to the gay experience. The most popular article I've seen is The Epidemic of Gay Loneliness from the Huffington Post on March 2. I'm glad I'm not the only one, but it's discouraging to think that this loneliness is such a common experience for gay men.

    This article also points to the phenomenon of gay men using poor judgment in self care and sexual health because they simply don't know what they're feeling. They are numb to their feelings of trepidation that would normally protect someone from taking a risk they're not comfortable with. This corresponds with my experience of feeling numb, not being able to identify what I'm feeling, and not knowing what to do about it before it's serious.

    Rana:

    Establishing meaningful gay male relationships is, shall we say, "challenging" to be brief. My last boyfriend of 2 years compared gay male relationships to cheap furniture that you throw out after it's worn out. I tried to hang on because I wanted to be with him, and eventually he wanted an open relationship, which I'm not comfortable with. My most recent dating partner of several months went completely silent over the holidays and then went back to casual sex. I'm not ready to date because I'm not ready for more drama.

    I'm seeing a therapist who is moving on to another agency, so I'll be getting a new therapist soon. I'm working on clinical depression and anxiety, with an antidepressant to help. The numbness I feel and the problem I have identifying my feelings seems as much related to loneliness as depression and probably years of avoidance of painful feelings. Or perhaps the antidepressant is causing some of the numbness.

    OnTheHighway:

    I think you've pretty much hit it on the head - I'm not connecting to others period, and it's not just a romantic relationship I need. I've lost my appetite for being with others in a really basic way.

    I was visiting an older gay man and his partner this weekend when I casually mentioned that I like trains. For the next several minutes he listed all the reasons he hates them - their environmental impact, the noise, the way they block traffic, etc. His partner never even acknowledged me, flipping through a book and complaining that they "stole" one of his pictures in it. The room seemed pretty cool, and there were some definite sharp edges from these guys.

    Those aren't people I want to be with, and I hope I don't wind up that way. I'm tired of trying to get connection from an older gay community that's bitter, jaded, and just too negative to even exchange pleasantries. They don't know about my feelings of loneliness but they sure reinforced my fears rather than help alleviate them. Being gay after 40 feels quite a bit different than before 40.

    Moonsparkle:

    I guess I'm lucky in that I chose positive coping mechanisms. What it seems like I'm struggling with now is what my life really means in terms of my connections with others, and what I want to be remembered for when I'm gone.

    I'm reading "The Velvet Rage" by Alan Downs, and he describes these coping mechanisms as a reaction to shame. I think I'm going through this process of recognizing things that I do (that fortunately are good coping skills) that are still done out of a sense of shame. I didn't think I'd be wading through shame in my 40s.

    Yes, this is how I experience loneliness. When there's silence I feel pressure, like a submarine that's dangerously deep. I get anxious and I just don't want to be with myself anymore.

    For me this silence feels like a condemnation. All my life my family and others have thrown the bible at me and preached the evils of homosexuality. Now, as I sit alone in a silent condo, I'm I supposed to believe that being gay is REALLY okay? I actually traded the experience of being a father and having a family for ... silence?

    Where are the rainbows and pride flags and "community" that everyone shouted about back in college? Who the fuck is going to care when I'm sick, or who will visit me in the rest home someday? The one thing I know already about gay old age is that it will be lonely, and very quiet.

    BeingDude:

    You're probably right. This is likely a well-worn path that I'm just overlaying my gay experience on top of. Still, being gay does impact my life and it makes this more challenging. I don't have the same support systems that straight people often do.

    My therapist has me learning mindfulness meditation to get past the anxiety, and I think it is helping me find my center. Sometimes when I'm silent I become present to the pain I've been avoiding, and that's not been easy. It's a sadness, a heaviness, and a grief that I can feel in my body.

    Honestly, I resent being gay. If there's any feeling that's really clear it's resentment. I didn't ask for being gay, and I sure as hell didn't ask for my family. It was one obstacle after another after another, and here I am at the other side of coming out - alone.

    I felt alone when I was little and I just "knew" that I was different. Later, my family was so hateful it was obvious to me I was alone. I felt alone trying to connect with two guys who ultimately traded me for hookup culture. Coming out put me irreversibly into a group of people that just don't live the same lives as others, and have clinically proven higher risks for all kinds of health problems related to mental and physical health. In one article on this I saw that chronic loneliness is almost as toxic to health as smoking 5 packs of cigarettes a day in terms of life expectancy.

    So forgive me, but I'm just at a loss to even want to be gay. I had no idea that it was so inextricably linked to loneliness and the multitude of problems that go with it.

    Patrick
     
  10. Patrick7269

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    Greatwhale,

    I want to respond to your post individually because there's a lot there. Thanks for all of this.

    I read your blog post, and it reminded me that I participated in a mens group in 2003-5 that was based largely on Robert Bly's writings, and the King | Warrior | Lover | Magician archetypes. It was a great experience because by the time it was over (I stopped when I moved to another city) I had really blossomed and I no longer thought of myself as a gay man, but as a man who is gay. Today I'm trying to apply what I learned in that mens group to this phase of my life, which feels remarkably different.

    I've been writing back and forth with another member on the topic of "sacred masculinity". With an abusive father, the idea of unravelling the mystery of masculinity has always intimidated and even scared me. I have a deep belief that I'm not authentic, or that I'm less than straight men. I am jealous of even the simplest things about them, because not for one moment did they ever have to feel like an orphan to the universe.

    I'm thinking of this grief and loneliness as a "check engine" light for the mind, body and spirit. You're right that it's ultimately good in that it must serve an important purpose; I just wish I hadn't become so accustomed to ignoring it and living with it. It's now this glaringly obvious signal that I can't ignore.

    I find it interesting that the hero's journey of Katabasis is in my opinion almost synonymous with the coming out journey. I think the act of coming out is preceded by a decision to embark on this journey. Because I was accidentally outed to my family I'm not sure if I really chose this journey at first. I did however come out as an adult in college.

    My spiritual energy right now is about like a dark intermittent hum because I'm losing familiar bearings I once had faith in. I have no idea which way is up and I'm barely keeping the lights on in my life. I don't want to think about who I'll be in the future because I'm pretty pessimistic about gay culture in particular. I guess with all the "quietness" I'm forced to go through some things that before I could distract myself around. Gay culture really is pretty toxic and it's not something I see as conducive to my overall health.

    To put it in the mens movement vernacular, I think my life is out of balance between the KLWM archetypes. I don't have these parts of myself working together or even communicating right now. Ironically I think I'm going back into the compartmentalized life I worked so hard to get out of when I came out. I think my journey is about reintegrating these parts of myself in a new way that is right for this phase of my life.

    I'm starting with a new therapist soon so this is very timely.

    Thank you for reminding me of some things I'd learned long ago that are still very applicable here. I just wish I didn't have to do this alone.

    Patrick
     
  11. Madge Beurde

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    Some time ago after the truama of my experiences in the early days of the AIDS epidemic I attempted to put the pieces back togther by seeing a therapist on a regular basis.
    After a few months she said two things that have resonated with me ever since.
    1. Endless orgies of self analysis are sometimes counterproductive.
    2. Given what you've been through it's amazing you are as sane as you are.

    Why am I mentioning this? Simply because there's a possibility 'staring at your own navel' is also being counterproductive. OK, on the surface your feelings may suggest some form of deep self analysis or formal therapy could give you peace but I simply want to raise the prospect you could be chasing your own tail.All of us need also to take into account that any intelligent person well aware of what is happening on this planet at this point in time can be justifiably overcome with amorphous and hard to explain fears. The solution to that, if is it in any way part of your pain, is to become involved in efforts to put things right. Easier said than done I know.
    As to the mystical suggestions made here be careful before plunging into any of them. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
     
    #11 Madge Beurde, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  12. justaguyinsf

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    I think you're right that self-analysis has its limits and at some point you just have to keep moving forward even if you're stumbling and confused for a while.

    Patrick, I was going through a period like you're going through (I still have touches of it from time-to-time) for a few years but I started to pull myself out of it about a year ago or so. One of the big triggers for that period was when my daughter grew up and my life changed dramatically from being an almost full-time dad of a teenager to being a single guy in the big bad City. So as you can guess, even if had (or yet) become a dad eventually you return to the task of building your life out of a more solitary existence. What I have found useful is revisiting many of the touchpoints and interests that used to bring me joy and finding what part of those things (beliefs, interests, routines, avocations, etc.) I can apply to my current life in a new way. I also have found the concept of mindfulness really useful ... noting nonjudgmentally what is going on with me emotionally but not necessarily letting it rule me. I think these changes you're going through are pretty common and that part of what mid-life brings is exactly the struggles you're experiencing. Hope that helps.

    P.S. I'm a major train nerd.
     
  13. OnTheHighway

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    I highlighted a few of your comments that really stood out to me and they reflect two things from my perspective: Shame and Internalized Homophobia. And, yes, in our 40s, we all still deal with these emotions.

    Your prior relationships were with people whom clearly have not worked through these emotions. Taken together with your own need to address them, the combination of two people with shame and internalized homophobia is not a good combination for a relationship. Maybe try and put those relationships behind you.

    You can meet people whom have worked through their shame and internalized homophobia. They do Exist! But before doing so, before focusing on the loneliness, as you clearly recognize yourself, you need to focus on your own shame and internalized homophobia.

    We all have baggage from life. Your not alone. The question is, can you find closure from all that baggage, move on from the traumas they caused, and cleanse yourself of shame? I think you can. And you seem to be addressing it even in this thread. So, keep addressing it. Keep working with the therapist.

    Consider writing down (or developing a mental list) all the events in your life that have caused you emotional trauma. Ask yourself the question: have I found closure from each event and can I move on from them? For those where you have not, thinking about what you need in order to move on from those events. How can you take each event and find a way to move on from it?

    Vulnerability is a critical element. You clearly were open to making yourself vulnerable, but maybe you were doing so with the wrong people? Opening yourself up and taking risks builds confidence and self esteem. Vulnerability is part of a life long journey; shutting it down cuts that journey off. You need to engage with others, make yourself vulnerable again. The past relationships are in the past, draw a line in the sand and start with a clean sheet of paper.

    Make yourself vulnerable to a wider audience of people. If the prior avenues you were using to meet other gay guys yielded poor results, find new avenues. Consider joining an expanded range of LGBT organizations. Get yourself out to meet new people in new environments. Push yourself, force yourself. Make yourself vulnerable.

    You have very strong character and determination. That's apparent in your writing. As you say yourself, you have taken the shame and spun it for the positive doing positive things in your life rather than falling back on a lot of negative habits like so many others have. Well, use that determination again to work through the shame and internalized homophobia. Yes, even in you 40s.

    Btw, I found The Velvet Rage a great resource. There is a particular section that really stuck with me, where it is suggested that in order to continue to work on ourselves and manage the shame, we need to think about the type of person we want to be, and then focus on becoming that person. I am constantly reminding myself "whom do I want to be?" I know whom I want to be, and my journey will always be focused on being that person.
     
  14. Tomás1

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    I'd say your issue is low self esteem. This is endemic from in the gay community.

    Creating your life around being gay does not work - you're hitching your satisfaction onto others - a recipe for disaster.

    I suggest looking within, creating goals & active movement toward them - to move in the direction of satisfaction, & what u want. Having a goal bigger than yourself can bring meaning into your life.

    What do u want? What is unique about u?
     
  15. Tomás1

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    I'd say your issue is low self esteem. This is endemic from in the gay community.

    Creating your life around being gay does not work - you're hitching your satisfaction onto others - a recipe for disaster.

    I suggest looking within, creating goals & active movement toward them - to move in the direction of satisfaction, & what u want. Having a goal bigger than yourself can bring meaning into your life.

    What do u want? What is unique about u?
     
  16. Moonsparkle

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    @ Madge Beurde

    1. Endless orgies of self analysis are sometimes counterproductive.

    So so true! Love this sentence! (and it makes me laugh a bit!) My therapist has really been instrumental in assisting me in moving forward and making some changes to negative patterns and behaviors in real-life ways. And yet, it's two steps forward and then one step back when I fall back into an 'orgy of self analysis' and therefore STUCK. Counterproductive for sure!

    I'm going to remind myself of this phrase!
     
  17. CameronBayArea

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    Patrick - I've been stewing on your post for the past day or so, trying to puzzle out what I hope will be a helpful response. My thoughts have gone in several directions, some of which have been eloquently expressed by others above. But what's come to feel like the best answer is one that's slightly out of the box...

    It seems to me that you're making the assumption that there's something inside of you that needs to be addressed, or perhaps even fixed. The way I see it, you're an awesome guy as you are. And, as the Huffington Post story illustrates, being lonely and gay is actually very common. It might even be pervasive. So, what you're experiencing isn't so much a Patrick issue, it's more of a cultural phenomenon.

    Although I accepted myself as gay at 13, I lived as a straight married man until the age of 44. Six years of dating men since then has shown me that, were it not for the many years of Intimacy Boot Camp I had with my wife, I would be as emotionally malnourished as so many gay men are. Women, generally speaking, have a natural talent for inducing and developing emotional intimacy. Men, generally speaking, do not. Is it any wonder that so many gay men are lonely?

    One key quality women have is that they make men, who are normally transaction-oriented, slow down. Also, their relative lack of ego creates a safe space for men to be emotionally vulnerable. To straight men, women aren't just hot and sexy, they're warm and safe. Most gay men are not. Gay dating, in my experience, is a game of reflexes--- whoever rejects the other first wins.

    If you felt ready to date, I would tell you to seek out formerly married men and/or men who are parents. Those life experiences teach men how to develop and maintain an openness to humble emotional intimacy. There's no guarantee that you'll have better experiences, but I can tell you that formerly married men tend to seek each other out. This is not so much because they share similar life experiences, rather, it's because they come to learn that many goldstar gays have poor relationship skills.

    Because you don't feel ready to date, I instead suggest that you learn and observe as much as you can about emotional intimacy. Who do you feel closest to? Why? Why, exactly, do lesbians have much different relationships than gay men? How, exactly, do straight men fall in love? Understanding the minutia of how emotional intimacy is developed and maintained will give you confidence in your own ability to replicate it. With understanding, and surprisingly little effort, you will drift toward people and relationships that are deeper, and your loneliness will gradually fade.

    Essentially, this is my advice- if your current emotional diet is the nutritional equivalent of junk food, then the cure isn't a cleanse, it's about fundamentally changing what you ingest. Step away from the unhealthy and instead surround yourself with the nutrient rich. Learn from those who are successful. Observe and emulate those who have what you want to have.

    I really don't think there's anything wrong with you Patrick. You live in an emotionally arid place - perhaps it's time to relocate.
     
    #17 CameronBayArea, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  18. OGS

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    I've been sort of mulling over your thread and thinking about how to respond for a couple days now. First off I guess I'll just say that I'm sorry you're going through this. I can honestly say from the other posts I have read of yours (mainly responses to other people) that you seem like the kind of person who, in my experience, would thrive in general, but especially in the gay community that I know.

    This happens to me a lot on this forum. People seem to have a very different experience of the gay community than I do. A lot of times in the back of my mind I chalk this up to people having limited exposure or not really being fully out--in your case, clearly neither of these things apply. Sometimes I think it's generational--but you and I are pretty much the same age, I believe.

    And so I mull. And to be honest the thing I keep coming back to is that someone you were dating compared relationships to cheap (disposable) furniture... and you stayed. I can't tell from your post how long you stayed but it seems clear that this revelation wasn't the closing remark, it was somewhere in the middle. And I kept coming back to that. Why would someone who didn't feel that way do that, why would they stay with someone who said that? And it clearly seems that it's either that they didn't think they were worth better or they just don't think there is better out there.

    I guess there's no way I can know which one it is, but it seems to me based on what you've written that it's the latter. Your post seems just chock-full of self-fulfilling prophesies. You seem really prepared to believe that loneliness is intrinsic to the gay experience which is of course the ultimate self-fulfilling prophesy. I mean if you were somehow born to be lonely why bother connecting? Right? And of course what better recipe for ending up lonely. You seem pretty clear that having meaningful relationships of any sort with other gay men is "challenging" and it seems pretty clear that you don't think it's just challenging for you but that it is somehow inherently challenging. You dismiss dating because it will surely just lead to more "drama". Gay men of a certain age are "bitter, jaded, and just too negative to even exchange pleasantries". Being gay puts you (us) "irreversibly into a group of people that just don't live the same lives as others". You mention that gay people sort of definitionally lack the support systems straight people have. And finally, of course: "The one thing I know already about gay old age is that it will be lonely, and very quiet."

    Wow, we really don't come off very well. Really about the best that can be said for us is that maybe you feel bad for us. Maybe? And I'm forced to admit that if I believed all that about gay men, about us, I'd probably be pretty depressed and lonely too. And so I think to myself how can he stop believing those things. And I don't know because I haven't believed any of those things since about a month after I came out and... well, that ship has sailed. But it really does seem to me that's the key so I keep mulling.

    And I come back to your friend group. I must admit that I'm a bit confused here. From what you've written you have an amazing group of tight-knit friends... with whom you don't really connect? You can't find any hope there? Are they all similarly doomed? Are any of them gay? I mean I guess there's the couple you visited but I'm assuming they're not friends since you don't seem to really like them. The thing I keep thinking is that really good friendship fills you up in a way that lasts and sustains, even when you're not together. Maybe more than a romantic partner that's what you need. Are you friends with any gay men who are happily coupled? They're out there. I promise. At this point about half of my gay male friends are happily married... like, literally married (I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to say that, but here we are).

    My suggestion would be to get out there and meet some of these people, not to date, but just to see the possibilities. They really are out there, but I think you really have to believe that before you're going to find them.
     
  19. Patrick7269

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    Thanks everyone so much! I'll write more after work tonight.

    Patrick
     
  20. Patrick7269

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    Thanks again for your responses. Here are my thoughts.

    Thanks,

    Patrick

    Madge Beurde:

    This is pretty dismissive and rude. I'm going through what I'm going through, and I don't need to "justify" my experience to you - or anyone.

    Exactly the opposite of your point - I suspect that my "survival mode" has been by ignoring my feelings and postponing what has really been going on. If I had been more aware of myself (and honest with myself) I don't think I wouldn't have gotten this way, whatever it is I'm going through. I understand your point (and it's a valid one) - but it's also pretty judgmental.

    justaguyinsf:

    Although I'm not a father I think I'm experiencing a life change because of my age. This sounds right although for me the trigger was probably different than you.

    Around 2010 - 2013 I went through a few losses that I think made me more pessimistic. My dad passed on, a relationship of two years ended, and there was a tragic shooting in my condo building. Although I kept going and made it through, I never quite "exhaled" and got back to my old self. I've been learning mindfulness techniques precisely because of this, and your point on mindfulness makes sense to me.

    During these times I definitely found a few good friends that knew I needed support, but the gay organizations I volunteered for were talking "about" me, not "to" me. I was really surprised that people I considered close just couldn't be bothered. It's also funny how when you're in a happy relationship some of your gay "friends" will scatter like flies, while they relish seeing you go through the pain of the breakup. I have fewer social contacts because I don't have time or patience for these frenemies.

    I've ramped up the violin, trains, working out, drawing, photography, you name it. I definitely enjoy these but lately they feel more like temporary distractions from something I don't want to face. I do hang out with supportive friends that I'm really lucky to have.

    OnTheHighway:

    I think so too. The more I think about it the more I realize I never really acknowledged the homophobia when I was growing up, especially the extreme homophobia from my family. I put my head down and kept moving on, and had a policy of peace at any cost.

    The one thing left unsaid to my father is how much I hate him. I actually regret having never said how much he hurt me. If I could delete his DNA I would in a heartbeat. I think this is likely the root of most of my problem because his hate affected my beliefs, outlook, self-esteem, and just about everything.

    I think you're exactly right. Another part of my "survival mode" was just not allowing myself to be vulnerable. I also feel good about how I met the boyfriend I was with for two years - he was a participant in a workshop I facilitated for a gay community organization. So, I know how to be in the community and meet people. I just need to make myself want to again.

    I totally agree. I'm a firm believer that our lives (given enough time) become an outward manifestation of what's really inside us. So I'm seeing a life that's the result of a mixture of good and not so good things. I know that the bitterness comes at a heavy price.

    BeingDude:

    I think you're exactly right. Although I take good care of myself and I try to have life goals, I also tend to censor myself and live a life of fantasy. I don't quite love myself, at a fundamental level.

    I don't think I've ever felt worthy from the inside, intrinsically. It seems I still get my sense of worth by pleasing others, even in my 40s. Ironically, my homophobic step-mother gave me exactly this same advice, and it's the only good advice she ever gave. Professed to know all about my wicked and ungodly life but never bothered stepping foot in my home.

    I wonder if I don't like silence because then I don't have to think this hard! *lol* I know the characteristics of what I want: authenticity, being of service / being connected, being missed when I'm gone, being trusted. What's unique about me: still working on it.

    Moonsparkle:

    I think what I find most with a good therapist is that I learn where I distort my perceptions of reality, and where I sabotage my own efforts. I also typically take one step back too.

    With my depression it's hard for me to change, and that I need to work on. Especially this late in the gray season here in the Pacific Northwest, it just feels really draining sometimes. I need to find the energy to change.

    CameronBayArea:

    It saddened me to read the article because I thought I was maybe just "in a funk". No, it's more than that.

    If being gay is just lonely, then I'm not going to make it. I can't go on like this indefinitely.

    What interests me about the article is that it seems to have been the exact right thinking at exactly the right time, and very well-written. Although it's not what I would like to hear it's a balanced and fair look at the issue, I think.

    Perhaps on a brighter note the community will begin to think more about ways to connect and how to be a real community, rather than a disjoint set of tribes delineated by mobile app of choice. Anyone who reads that article should pay heed - we need to change.

    This is a great idea and I think I would enjoy helping to raise kids. I know I already love being an uncle.

    As a rule I don't have sex until after the fourth date. But that doesn't mean I'm not counting the minutes!

    Here in Seattle I'm a lot more conservative than your average bloke from the gayhtto. I've been offered sex about as casually as coffee, and I've been ridiculed and called prudish. I don't know if I need to move to a different city or if I'm just not uncovering all of my options here. There are a lot of guys here, and not much commitment - or at least on the surface.

    I also experience sex as a bonding experience, even the most casual of sex. To me sex within a relationship is for one person, and I prefer monogamy. One therapist (basically, I'm paraphrasing from years ago) lectured me that I need to move out of the midwest and give up my unsophisticated sexual politics. Shortly after I had a new therapist. My last therapist mentioned several times that I needed to consider open relationships, and that I'm in a different culture than the Midwest.

    The fact that I want one partner is something that I feel makes me different, and I'm not going to compromise something that is so basic to who I am. For a lot of guys here that's just not okay.

    Good point, there are a few that come to mind.

    Do you literally mean that Seattle is a problem and I should move, or that my current way of relating to guys is emotionally arid and I should change how I relate to men? Or both?

    So many vending machines, so few five star restaurants.

    OGS:

    Wouldn't everyone have their own experience, unique to themselves? A person who's as "exposed" to the community as you could have a completely different and equally valid experience, and a completely different journey.

    This was about 18 months into a 24 month relationship, or right around when I turned 40. I guess I wasn't young and pretty enough anymore, or trim and slim, or whatever it was he wanted.

    I hung on for several more months to see if he was going through something temporary, but it was not long after this when he brought up open relationships. At this point we weren't getting along well at all, and I broke up with him. He came over to discuss an open relationship, and I already had his stuff packed. Had we been close and doing well when he asked maybe it would have felt different.

    No, in retrospect staying with someone who makes that kind of comment isn't a good idea, but actually, I had a better time with him than anyone else. Early in the relationship he made me laugh, we had our own little in-jokes, and we did a lot of travel. Compared to what else I've experienced that was pretty good, so I wanted to try to keep it the way it was. Since then he's said "his universe had a hole in it" after I left, and that's his problem.

    I understand what you're saying, but again, there's no reason our experiences necessarily would line up.

    If you don't mind me asking, what was your family like? Did you grow up in a tolerant or progressive home? What was your baseline of belief prior to confronting being gay? I think that's likely part of our different experiences.

    I've got a small circle of good friends, and the people from my volunteer work aren't really the good friends I thought. As I wrote above, they weren't really there for me when I needed them and actually don't like it when I'm in a happy relationship. They're people I can do without. My real friends I would go to the ends of the earth for.

    This close circle of friends is what keeps me in Seattle. Otherwise I'm getting pretty tired of the social scene.

    Agreed; that's my strategy right now, to be with friends. I'm spending time with friends and not focusing too much on dating until I know why I'm sad.

    Yes, and oddly enough, couples tend to not be as social when they're spending most of their time with each other. I still see these "exemplary" friends, but not as often.

    I agree.

    ---

    Thanks again everyone. After writing the above, I think I need to deal with my unresolved issues (hate, to be honest) with my father. We avoided some difficult conversations because I was trying to be "good enough", or because he was dying and we were just trying to keep the peace. I think there are some impacts from that history.

    I also think that the homophobia and domestic violence in my family affected my beliefs and outlook. Although I made a successful life on my own, I haven't really examined (or even challenged) my negative beliefs. I think they're ingrained and somewhat automatic from years ago.

    And of course, I'm in my mid-40s and putting my life into context and trying to make meaning of it all. It's reassuring to know that I'm pretty typical that way.

    Thanks,

    Patrick