I've been lurking the site for a while - thanks for all the courage building reads. I'm just not sure about myself these days. I'm no longer sure what I want and thought if I talked here I could start putting things back together again. Background I'm 34, professional, well paid, nice house, dogs, and the list goes on. I've been closeted all my life. I started to realize I was 'different' as a teen. I had a few sexual encounters with friends by trading oral favors while sleeping over at eachother's houses. As time went by, the few friends I experienced this with either married or moved away - My assumption is it truely was exerimentation for them, nothing more. I see myself as bi - 4.5 on the kinsey scale. I generally have an attraction to men; but, I have no interest in a relationship with men. I just want to do an oral exchange and go on our way. I want a relationship with a woman even though I rarely find them sexually attractive. Usually, I'll meet a woman and over time, develop a sexual attraction toward her. Down side is, by the time I start to like her sexually, she's moved on. Where did this leave me? When I was fooling around with my friends, I never really gave it much thought over sexuality. I convinced myself that I was experimenting as well and that was that. I had girlfriends, from time to time, that I never did much with but kiss a lot. I started dating girls less and less, though, because I didn't find many of them sexually attractive. I got to the point that I just completely stopped dating and have remained abstinent since I was 19 years old. My coping mechinsim I became incredibly busy in life. I can't remember a day that I didn't have some sort of work, civic activity, project, hobby, or friend to help. People would inquire why I don't have a girlfriend and I'd always respond "I'm happy single - nobody to get in my way, I can hang out in my boxers, and if I want to sleep in the livingroom, or use the dryer as a dresser, I just do it." For 16 years this worked well for me. What screws me up So, I go on my daily routine and not miss a beat. Single, happy, jacking off to gay & straight porn (mostly gay). Every once in a while I get hit with the "I've got somebody you need to meet!" issue thrown at my feet. I hate being hooked up because it is so hard for me to get through it. Usually, the hook-up is so stressful that I become defensive and act like an ass to prevent being liked. So what brings me here I got invited to a wine tasting party over the weekend by my ex-bosses wife. I accepted the invitation and she proceeded to say "Great, I have a bunch of single friends who say they never get laid so I thought of you!" and I felt my heart sink. I absolutely hate these situations as I get so damned nervous. I avoid sex talk; but, being in very good physical shape and a "man's man" (weightlifting, building stuff, hunter, fisherman, off-road motorcycle camping trips, messy house, uncordinated clothing....) everyone assumes I'm straight as an arrow. This particular event did two things to me. I finally snapped and told a close friend over dinner about my sexual orientation. It was a bit disappointing because he was extremely accepting but the subject changed within 30 seconds and that was that. I, of course, got the "Well, I'd have never thought that about you." comment. The second thing is it made me incredibly lonely and thinking irrationally. I don't know where my next step is. I've thought about coming out and seeing where it leads me. I stress, I don't want a relationship with a guy; but, I wish I could be honest going into a relationship with a woman that I like guys and I want to take things slowly. I guess, in honesty, I'm wanting to force myself down the straight path but I want to start living an honest life. I primarlily want to go into a relationship openly with the understanding that this may or may not work, but I want to try. Problem is, I'm afraid that I'll just further complicate my life by choosing to be open. I'll have to post more later since I'm getting ready for work now. Thoughts are welcome. Hope I'm making sense.
Hi, and welcome to EC. It sounds like you've done a fair amount of introspection and you have a pretty good idea of some of the issues that seem to be coming up for you at the moment. My first thought is this: You describe yourself as a Kinsey 4.5, and it doesn't sound like you enjoy sexual experiences with women, at least it isn't on the top of your list. Yet you are saying you want a relationship with one. My guess: You're bullshitting yourself. And it seems like you know that at some level, with the comment about "leading yourself down the straight path." A couple problems with that: (a) it doesn't work; you can't make yourself straight if you're gay; (b), as a result of (a), if you do end up in a relationship with a woman, you'll likely be unhappy and either sneaking out and cheating on her, or in a relationship that isn't fulfilling for either of you. So it sounds like perhaps you're somewhere in the process of acknowledging your sexual orientation. Normally this happens in stages as you process the "loss" of your straight self (denial, anger, bargaining, grief, acceptance) and what you're describing sounds like it's somewhere between denial ("I'm not gay, I just like sex with guys") and bargaining ("Well, I like sex with guys, but I can still have a relationship with a woman and occasional sex with guys on the side") Maybe the best thing under the circumstances is to ponder things a bit. Think about what it would be like to be married to a woman, and how you'd feel about sex with this woman. Then, think about the same thing with a guy. And maybe also look at where your sexual attractions are. Do you like gay porn or straight porn? Are you aroused more by guys or girls you see on the street? Where do your eyes go at the beach? What's in your mind's eye as you're masturbating? Guys or girls? All of those can help you get a clearer picture of where you are. If most of the answers are that your focus is guys, then it's sorta ridiculous to make the argument that you're straight... and one common misconception is that men who are coming to terms don't get (or rationalize to themselves) that the great female friend they have is a *friend* and not a romantic/sexual interest. So at best, maybe you can force yourself to see something sexual, but it isn't natural and isn't really fulfilling in the long term. Hopefully that gives you a few thoughts to consider. If you want to augment what you've said above, or respond about how what I've said feels and fits (or doesn't fit) for you, that would be helpful also Take care
The crucial indicator in whether someone is gay, bi or straight is sexual attraction. It's what someone has a right to expect as part of a romantic relationship. Not that have a right to it straight away, it could years in a relationship for it be right. But if you ask someone to commit to you in a relationship, they will expect that sex will be part of it at some point. Why would a woman wish to date you if you prefer men sexually? If you are not sexually attracted to women on a general basis, it doesn't make sense to life your life as a straight man. Of course, by coming here, and quantifying where you are on a sexuality scale, you are taking steps into thinking about it. Is there anything about the idea of dating a man who you could have an emotional and physical bond that you find unattractive?
You know, Chip, I appreciate your response. It allowed me to continue to reflect and argue with myself. Every time I had a rebuttal (of course, not angry), I continuously asked myself if I REALLY felt that way or if it was from 34 years of self-conditioning. Here's what I concluded: While I still have trouble coming to grips with it and I still go through bouts trying to rationalize it away, I think I need to move on to the actuality that I am, indeed, gay. I fantasize primarily (though not exclusively) about men though I find the occasional female attractive. I can certainly assert that the few females I've found attractive had masculine traits (short hair, jeans, tennis shoes, et cetera). I've never had a sexual encounter with a woman. I still attribute this more to a fear that I wouldn't be able to perform and not be able to explain myself but to come out under already extremely awkward pretenses. Asking myself in regards to relationships...That's more complicated. I think my unattraction to a relationship to a man is in my head due to how I expect relationships between men to work. I really think that without serious introspection, I am incapable of a relationship with a man - at least, not like a profile relationship would work. That takes me back to my attraction to a relationship with a woman, which, in my head, still works....until I realize I have to be romantic. I thought about something new today, though. I took the time to really contemplate kissing a man. I've never kissed a man - only women. I've always felt that when I kissed a woman, it was forced and unpassionate. I've been asked (once) after kissing if I was feeling ok. After I became completely honest with myself, the way I imagined kissing a man was far more passionate than kissing a woman. I was aroused by it, not fearful. Where do I go from here? Since, you can't read a pause. I've sat here for a few minutes trying to figure out what to say at this point. It's theraputic to be able to write here and get honest opinions...even ones you don't want to hear. While my writing style is habitually concise; I'm rambling quite a bit in my head. My options are stay abstinent or come out. Honestly, I don't think it would help, but I certainly would like to champion a rather rare label "straight-curious". My one thing that holds me back, that I'm not sure is denial or truth - in my heart, I still see myself with a woman in regard to a relationship. I've only seen men, from a fantasy and from brief reality enounters as a teen as a quick masturbation session. Again, it's probably years of conditioning speaking but it's the one thing that, when fantisizing, is consistant. Oh well, chew that up if you will. Getting the feedback from you and Holmes has really done a lot to help me break down some walls in my mind and get to the root as opposed to trimming back the weeds.
first off your thought process is very impressive. it's very logical and the way you write indicates a lot about you. you are very analytical and rational by nature. therefore, here's my take on the above. 1. you mentioned that you are the man's man type and everyone thinks you are straight. you mentioned you are 34 and never had a relationship with women and try and avoid it at all costs. you also mentioned that you have never experimented sexually with women and only a few times with men (non penetrative encounters but no sex of any sort). 2. given #1, and given it sounds like you can pull women if you wanted them and you have not pulled them in, it would appear you have no interest in women and your only interest in them is really to uphold and image you have conditioned for yourself...."she would be nice if i was going to go down the straight path". but you have not explored that in 34 years so it would indicate you have no real interest in it. 3. i think your decision to abstain is not because you are not interested in men, i think that the notion of going all the way with a guy or exploring seriously dating a man, would challenge your self image. currently you can believe the mask you wear and that you show others that says "im just a straight bachelor who is very busy and has no time for a relationship". but teh reality is if you were really straight, you would be interested in purusing women or trying to get out there in some way. you have not. even the guy, steve correl on the movie "the 40 year old virgin" was scared to have sex with women because he felt that he wouldn't be able to perform but with prompting from friends he eventually tried dating and getting out there becvause he wanted to find a woman. your situation is different, because unlike the 40 year old virgin movie, you do not have an innate interest in women. yes, you may be shy like the character in teh movie but even with the shyness, what you have said above is that "you avoid, you do not find women sexually attractive for the most part."staying in your bubble allows you to stay straight in your mind and allows you to continue to go through life without must hassle of dealing with teh gayness.....avoidance. 3. you could be bi of course. that is a possibility but you are leaning towards men in your thoughts and fantasy life. that's very telling. 4. you mentioned that you would liek to be able to start a relationship with a woman and see where thigns go but not be pressured for sex and that you want them to know you also like guys and this may or may not work out. my question to you is why would you pick women first to try a relationship with your fantasy and sexual thoguht process for 34 years has leaned towards men. why not try exploring what you think you really would like first...dating guys? it like deciding to pile your plate up on Thanksgiving Dinner with cranberry sauce and you know you do not like cranberry sauce but you tell the dinner host, "ok, i really do not like cranberry sauce, i really prefer stuffing and i know you have tons of stuffing right there on the table, but i will try your cranberry sauce instead and will try to eat all of it but honestly i'm not sure if i'm going to like it or not because it hasn't done anything for me in the past. like i said,i really like stuffing but just to please you and make you and everyone else at the table happy, i will eat the cranberry sauce." you wouldn't do that would you...likely not. you would simply pass on the cranberry and try the stuffing. so what i am saying is do not waste your time and someone else time trying to like women and forcing somethign to happen when you know you liek men. maybe you should try and see what's up with men first to either rule that in or rule that out so that you can later go into a relationshipo with a woman (if you decide to) knowing that you're totally intersted in that type of relationshiop or that you're totally not.
I realize that I'm in a completely different stage of life than you are, but I could really relate to a lot of what you said. About this time last year, I was having a eerily similar thought process. I had accepted my sexual attraction to men, but I couldn't see myself carrying out a relationship with one. As someone who doesn't fit any of the typical stereotypes, it conflicted strongly with the self-image of myself and that which others had of me. I saw myself with a woman, and I fantasized about having the perfect relationship and the perfect life. I looked forward to finding the perfect girl and fulfilling my "full potential" as others saw it. However, once I had worked out the details about the perfect life, it just felt incredibly empty. There was no passion, just short vignettes from a third person point of view. Then one day I allowed myself to play around with the idea of having a relationship with another guy, and long story short (since I've rambled on enough about myself), I found the passion and I haven't looked back since. I struggle telling you what you are, but I've never heard of someone having a solely sexual attraction toward one sex yet having a solely romantic attraction toward the other. It just doesn't work that way. From what you've told us, it sounds to me like you're in the process of coming to terms with your orientation.
Thanks again for the feedback...I'll address it tomorrow morning. I'm utterly disappointed in myself. My biggest fear is coming out ot my best friend. He was here for 2 hours tonight. I kept taking a deep breath to prepare to blurt out what I have on my mind and couldn't do it. I tried over and over - it just wouldn't come out. My problem is he's a mid-level executive, works in an environment that he can't stand people who aren't true and honest. I've concluded that I'm neither and keep digging a deeper hole every time we see eachother and I don't come out and demonstrate outstanding character like I should and like he deserves. How do you start this sort of conversation? I know the journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step....easier said than done.
sorry for the short response, i'm feeling a little sick and about to fall out lol. you are honest, you're just in a transition. rest well man, you're doing well.
OK, so, I've thought about this. You all won't begin to understand the help you've been to me in this very short time I've been talking with you. Still, I'm stuck going back and forth and I keep searching. I'm glad to hear that so many people struggle with this as I do because I'm usually very quick to correct and lasting decisions. This time it's not the case. What I do know for sure is that I'm ready to at least clear the air. Since I've chickened out last night when I had the chance to finally tell my best friend since highschool, I've decided to write it in a letter that I can read to him. Here's what I plan to say: I haven’t had outstanding character and want to correct it. I hope this doesn’t damage our relationship. It’s pretty obvious that I avoid relationships and go out of my way to not date. I want to look you in the eye and clear the air, I’m bi-sexual with a greater attraction to men than women. I’ve avoided telling people this because I thought I could make it go away and it didn’t matter. I’ve fought, recently, with a serious bout of depression which was partially responsible for my second motorcycle wreck that totaled my bike. That got me soul searching and analyzing myself – I feel that my issue is two-fold. In part, while I feel I have a right to discretion, I feel as if I owe my closest friends, whom I consider family, this explanation. Second, it allows those same people to at least understand me better. I’ve avoided relationships with women because I’m usually not sexually attracted and don’t want to get deep into a relationship and find there’s nothing there. The few I find sexually attractive are taken or fucked up in the head. The ones in the middle that I’m kind of attracted to, but not sure, are too quick to want to have sex and my orientation makes me so anxious that it’s impossible to perform. It’s also frightening to me that if I pursued a relationship I may have to face the truth and come to realize I don’t like them at all. I’ve been 100% abstinent since I was 18, fyi. I’m no longer confident in what I want. I still think, in my heart, that I want a relationship with a woman. But I’m not sure if I’ll ever find one to love. I don’t really have any intentions of dating men – despite my feelings in my mind, it goes against my belief system and would harm my personal sense of dignity. I’m sure that some would say that’s harmful to me overall, but, it is what it is. I’m telling this to you because I just finally want to clear the air and ask for your acceptance. It also allows me to be able to possibly find a girlfriend and at least give it a shot if I’m able to be honest and not feel sneaky about my feelings. It allows me to not have to stress over excuses with my closest friends as to why I get older and older and remain single. Finally, it allows me to be honest and feel confident in my character. From this, I have only two favors to ask of you: 1) If this knowledge has harmed our friendship, I have to live with that consequence. However, I beg that you follow through with your philosophy and be direct and up-front with me. It would hurt me badly, but I can at least know where I stand. It would absolutely devastate me for you to say you’re not bothered yet come around less and less and eventually avoid me altogether. 2) No matter how you feel about it, I ask that you allow me to be in control of who knows and doesn’t. I have a strong mind and personality, but I don’t have the strength to wear this on my sleeve. I’m not confident, and would like to keep discreet – perhaps forever. Overtime, I’m sure I’ll divulge, but I want to do it my way and to people I feel will understand, at least not persecute me. Thoughts?
Hey - I have a sense we are very similar. I never saw a relationship with a man in my future. If fact, I fought my gay "urges" until my early 30's. Even then I was wasn't willing to accept the fact that I was gay. I thought "I am bi- yeah thats it" - even though I had almost zero interest in women. The fact is I wanted to picture perfect sitcom life I had always seen on TV! And it just wasn't going to happen. The funny thing is I now see that our relationship is no different then any other (other than the sex organs). This is also the best relationship of my life because I can truely be the real me! As for telling your friend, I will say a few things. We often dont give people enough credit. I have one friend who I thought would take my being gay very badly - given his upbringing. I dreaded telling him. It went incredibly well and today he and my BF are very friendly. Most of my friends were more upset that I went thru it alone and didn't share what I was going thru with them. So I think reaching out is a good move. I think the letter goes into a lot of detail that you might not need - although you might feel it is needed (IE: the fact that you haven't had sex since you were 18). But you know the friendship better than I do. Lastly, I think you know you are gay ( from what you have written) and should think about if you are really going to be honest with your friend - if telling him you are BI is the right way to go????? Just my thought. Good luck to you.
Late to the thread, but I wanted to jump in. Cscipio, in the few days you've been posting here, it really seems like you've made a great deal of progress in understanding and accepting yourself. From a sexual attraction standpoint, it seems pretty clear that you are attracted primarily to men. This leaves one primary issue - what sort of lifestyle will you "choose" given your worldview, values, and life experiences. Obviously, no one can choose to which gender they will be sexually attracted. However, we do have the power to choose the lifestyle we live. I think a lot of posters here who have come to grips with their sexuality later in life would caution you against choosing a lifestyle at odds with your sexual attraction. I'm sure some people succeed in living complete, fulfilling heterosexual lives notwithstanding their homosexual attractions, I think more often than not (again, only based on anecdotal evidence), the repressed attraction grows stronger, taints the heterosexual relationship, or leads one to feel like they've led an inauthentic life. While finding a woman you could be honest with would help, I don't think it gets you all the way home - I think there would still be authenticity/honesty issues with others in your life. (I only note this because you seem like an incredibly moral/honest person) So, my humble advice: pause. You are in the process of connecting long unconnected dots. You're finally beginning to realize your sexuality. Though I'm in no position to say this, I think as you begin to become more comfortable with the conclusion you have recently made, you may become more comfortable with related ideas. You have acknowledged you are primarily attracted to men. You have allowed yourself to fantasize a bit about men. I think as you continue to cement the former idea and allow yourself to do the latter, the idea of being romantically attracted to a man might become more palatable. Maybe the best first step is just taking the restricters off your mind a bit seeing where it goes? A few other thoughts/questions: - In your letter, you say you would not live a gay lifestyle because it would offend your dignity, etc. Have you thought a bit about why you feel this way? I've harbored similar feelings at times, but after much thought, aside from purely religious reasons, I don't see why this should be the case. In the end, we all deserve love and companionship. - The professional/community life you live sounds impressive and admirable. Do your commitments make all of this more difficult? Is KC a gay friendly area? I'm just wondering if your surroundings/environment are feeding into these difficulties at all.
