General Question

[toremi]

cause I am curious...

Okay so after being here a while and reading a bunch pertaining to this very thing I have a question which probably can't be answered but I am sure everyone has an opinion on.

Now it seems to be that society in general, meaning both people from the straight community as well as LGBT community have a similar belief when it comes to men and sexuality.

What I mean by this is, and correct me if I am wrong cause I could be....

In my experience when a girl is a teenager and 'finding her way' it is actually not uncommon for her to experiment with girls. The degree of experimentation depends on the people and the situation but it is probably far more common for girls to do this as teenagers, young adults, etc. Now when a girl engages in this behavior, even if it is as minimal as a kiss to having sex with another woman -- there seems to be more of a "forgiveness" for lack of a better word if she were to say "but I am straight". Whereas if a male is to engage in this type of behavior, no matter how big nor how small -- it generally results in general opinion that he is gay or at very least bisexual.

My question is, is it different for males and females and exploration? Could it just be innocent exploration of ones self for a male as well or does it generally point in a certain direction. I guess I get the idea that for men to engage in any sort of homosexual behavior it is much more taboo -- so they are less likely to do it; which would lend to the theory that if they do then they must have something really driving them to. But could it be possible they are just coming into their own, finding their way, or just a bit horny?

From what I have seen here as well as other places people generally tend to lead toward believing -- if they have done it they are most likely gay or bisexual. But in my opinion only, and from what I have experienced it's not the same with women.

For example I know a case of both; male and female who did essentially the exact same thing when they were younger. Fast forward to present, they are both married with children. No one so much as questions the females motives, believing she is heterosexual and never was anything but. However for the guy, everyone claims he is gay and back in the closet trying to cover up some sort of dark past life.

I also had a friend that I kind of 'experimented' with when I was around 12. We were both curious about masturbation, and well things happened. While I can speak for myself for sure and say I am atleast bisexual.... as for him I am pretty certain (like almost bet money on it certain) he is essentially very close, if not entirely heterosexual. My honest opinion -- he was young, he was full of hormones and finding his way and he was horny. So a helping hand, was just that a helping hand.

I don't know just a rant and question all wrapped in one... I wanted to hear others thoughts. As for me I guess my final opinion is; It is possible for men to engage in homosexual behavior and be predominately straight.

[Daryn]

Lots of people who have done things with the same sex identify as straight, just as lots of people who have done things with the opposite sex indentify as gay. The physical aspect of sexual orientation is a part of the big picture, but the emotional aspect is there to consider as well. Many people experiment. Experimentation is what you make of it, only you know how you feel about being in certain relationships and situations. I think experimentation is the route some go to figure themselves out, but i think others call it experimentation because they are afraid to admit to themselves that they already know the truth. Only you know how you feel. Only you know what is right for you. Sexual orientation is made up of many aspects; I don't beleive that just because a person has had experiences with the same gender means they are gay.

[J Snow]

Well I have heard that female's are more aroused by certain thoughts and emotions whereas men are mostly attracted by the physical "what they can see" which tends to make female sexuality a bit more fluid.

However, the main thing I have to add to is in the society issue. My queer studies professor wrote a book about how queer issues are strongly related to feminist issues and homophobia is really a biproduct of sexism. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

Lesbianism is tolerated because its women trying to be more masculine, and masculinity is viewed as better than femininity. Thus, people more easily look the other way. I mean think about how many people are like “I don't mind gay people. I just wish they'd keep it in the bedroom and not wave their sexuality in everyone's face.” What they are really saying is they are bothered by the gays that act feminine.

[b0i70y]

In response to the more social aspect of your question, I think it really comes down to the more instinctual aspect of our social structure. If a male experiments with another male, on an instinctual level it shows that he might not be a rival when it comes to mating. Insecure males see this as a way to discredit them further by drawing on that, further ostracizing them from the potential mates.

That's just my theory.

But yeah, being gay has both to do with being homosexual, but also homoromantic. In the grand scheme of things, everyone is capable of being sexual with either gender, but how we react emotionally to them is what really shows how we're oriented.

I have a friend who was married to a woman for twenty years, had sex with her plenty, with kids and everything, but he's gay.

[Chip]

I read a study years back (no idea how reliable it was, or where their data came from) claiming that 40% of males masturbated together during their teen years... and this data was collected in the '70s or early '80s, when even *discussing* such things was taboo. So if that data is accurate, then a large portion of straight males are experimenting in that way, and obviously later end up in regular heterosexual relationships.

But I also believe there's a huge double standard, and I think it has to do with the perceptions of masculinity being directly tied to sexuality for men. Women can be emotional, can hug, can cry together... and, I suppose, can even experiment sexually together and nobody says boo about it. But to a lot of hetero men, expressing emotions (other than, say, anger or "macho" emotions) isn't cool, hugging (off of the athletic field) generally isn't either, or if it is, it's a "bro' pat" and not a real hug, and God forbid any hetero guy openly talk about masturbating with another guy.

I do think it's changing somewhat and there's more openness now than some years ago, but there's still clearly a double standard.

[b0i70y]

And social perceptions are largely region based, as well. America, in particular, has a bit of a strict set of gender roles, especially for men.

[Metal]

How much hair do they remove per $100'ish session?

[toremi]

All pretty valid points mentioned, of which a lot of them make sense.

I think for me the point of masculinity being as a good thing makes sense. Therefore when you "give that up" so to speak, that may be where the difference is. I definitely think there is a double standard as well, but it is certainly shifting. I know in my own experiences in life I have seen it happen -- definitely a difference in the metro lifestyle of men. Straight men are doing more and more things that would have been viewed "unmanly" before. I moved from rural Canada to Toronto and let me tell you -- there is still a huge gap between how the guys act in either place. I was considered metro where I came from, but here I would be considered pretty butch in comparison.

Either way I think as there is movement for acceptance and tolerence there will be less of a stigma put on "man love".

Also Chip, it doesn't surprise me one bit about the study you posted. I can count the many times I've heard a story similar to my own of young boys masturbating together. It seemingly happens a lot. From my experience of how my situation went down, it came out of general curiousity of "so this is how you do that". We had both just started and were curious to see if the whole thing was normal... Its not like that age you go to your parents or girls, so your best bud is the likely source.

At any rate thanks for the opinions -- when I notice something or get an idea in my head I like to see what others thoughts are on it.