Statistics I'm curious about

[cscipio]

For those who identify as bi, many identify as such under the gradient Kinsey scale which makes perfectly good sense seeing as most people would have some degree of preference.

Regarding relationships, especially long lasting ones and marriages (or at least intent to marry) what are the statistics of bisexuals who enter into relationships with the opposite gender vs the same gender?

Do Kinsey 4/5 folks ever successfully enter into a relationship with the opposite gender (or Kinsey 1/2 folks ever successfully enter into a relationship with the same gender)?

Finally, what is the statistic of bisexuals who enter a relationship and are out to their significant other? Does having that sort of honestly help the relationship or instead just provide for an 'out'?

---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2012 at 05:27 AM ----------

On a side note regarding my questions above - I'm not necessarily asking for numbers - though numbers are facinating

Personal experience comments are welcomed.

[toremi]

I am curious about this as well!

As I am in this boat, bisexual that is, I am curious how things turn out for fellow bisexuals.

I have tried doing some research as bisexuals and I have not come across a whole lot of information -- it seems like it is a smaller community, or maybe one that doesn't draw a lot of attention to itself. I am assuming because a lot of them may still be closeted. It is sort of a difficult topic I think to admit you have the potential to be attracted to either sex; it pretty much multiplies the amount of possible partners and probably makes partners uneasy.

Either way I am interested in seeing what comes of this thread I will be following

[Chip]

There are a tremendous number of flaws with Kinsey's studies and data, not the least of which is a very skewed sample, and the definitions he used for each of the markers on the scale.

It's the best we have -- there was another huge, very well-designed study of hundreds of thousands of people that was to be done about 15 years ago, but the wingnut Republicans made a huge big deal about how they weren't going to fund "studying perversion" so it never got funded.

However... I think the thing to remember is that most people, when referring to their identity on the Kinsey scale, are really talking about their personal feeling about how much attraction they feel toward each sex, not to Kinsey's specific identifications of each level.

Another interesting piece of info, which I knew anecdotally, but just read an abstraction of a scientific study that addressed this topic: At least one researcher has identified that the majority of newly-coming-out people, as part of their coming out process, identify as bisexual. It was the first time I've seen someone directly say, based on data, that most people identify as bi before they self-accept the gay label.

So when we incorporate that information, and then look at data (anecdotal or otherwise) on people who identify as totally bisexual (Kinsey 3) or kinsey 4 or something... we can't reliably tell anything about people who self-label as bisexuals unless we also know more about their coming out process; presumably someone who is still labeling themselves bisexual after a couple of years is truly bisexual (or deeply in denial), while someone who labels themselves as bisexual having come out a month ago... may well not be bisexual, and that, in turn, will skew any data we get.

So... given the above, I don't think we can say anything reliably, but my gut is that many of the people who identify as Kinsey 4 or 5 will probably never be in a hetero relationship, but are essentially leaving the door open, either because it's easier to accept their homosexuality if the door to hetero life isn't slammed and locked. And I'd probably say the same for Kinsey 1s and 2s, though it could also be argued that some Kinsey 2's may well be gay people who are just peeking through the closet door and not certain themselves about where their real identity lies.

Sorry that was longwinded and maybe a little too academic, but hopefully it provides some insight into a complicated question.

[Pinstripe]

I'm bi, and I've never been in a relationship with a woman, but I'd like to be (with a specific woman, but that's beside the point. >.<) The more I understand my own sexuality, the less I think the Kinsey scale can accurately describe it. In the past, I've thought of myself as Kinsey 2, because when it comes to porn/fantasies/whatever, my focus tends to be on men, leading me to believe I'm more attracted to them. But I also make very strong emotional connections with women. Because of this, I think I'd do very well in a serious relationship with a woman, and have started to think of sexuality in more complicated terms than how many people of each gender I find attractive.

Are you familiar with the Klein grid at all? It tries to address some of these issues...

[mAOz]

Sounds interesting! I'd like to know aswell

[toremi]

Chip I am interested in what you posted here. You always seem to have good sources, so this peaks my curiousity.

The way I reas this is that bisexuality is somewhat of a myth? Or am I reading wrong. If those who identify as mostly straight are really gay and peaking through the door and those who identify as mostly gay are just not shutting the door to their heterosexuality to make acceptance easier... Wouldn't that only really leave straight and gay -- essentially ruling out bisexuality as plausible.

I just find it interesting because I always believed this were the case you were one or the other -- that's why I struggled since I was young to figure out where I belong. I personally would bounce back and forth identifying as solely gay or solely straight depending on how I was feeling at the time until I finally gave in and went against my belief, and sort of accepted maybe I really could be interested in both -- this is when I started to feel I could be labeled bisexual.

But it seems as though from what you say studoes show and what others have told me that is really just the stepping stone toward gay or non-complete acceptance?

I ask cause I am genuinely curious

[cscipio]

Interesting point of view, Chip. I have wondered if the Kinsey scale was more or less interpreted as a progress chart from self recognition (or actualization to some) from curious to gay. I know that's not the original intent; however, that's what some (and perhaps myself) treat it as.

As I've stated in my previous posts, I struggle, as do many, not only with acceptance but also proper evaluation. For myself, I've always interpreted bisexuality as sexual attraction to either sex usually with greater emphasis toward one or the other. Given that interpretation, I've always felt that a bisexual person had merely to choose a lifestyle. While lusting, and craving will always be toward their emphasized gender, it still remained a choice.

Given that, I seem to be possibly misunderstanding the bredth of the orientation as it seems that the evidence you show demonstrates that most bisexuals self identify incorrectly skewing the results. Additionally, it seems that your sources imply that generally speaking a self identified bisexual who doesn't choose homosexuality often regrets the choice.

That leads me to question, are there any postings of a bisexual who chose to persue a homosexual lifestyle only to regret it and turn hetro?

I wholly admit, to the readers of this thread, I ask myself if I'm merely trying to leave a door open or not. Just a few days ago I was ready to just accept I'm gay and go with it. Then I went out to drink and saw my favorite bartender. She flirts with me a lot and is into really erotic kink - I flirt back and we escalate it to the point we're nearly blushing - she turns me on. This first makes me go right back to questioning myself and second it leaves me asking if I should take a newer approach and be out as bi and saying I can choose straight like I can choose to smoke or not or is that just nuts?

Would still love to hear stats or stories if anybody has them.

[biAnnika]

Statistics I can't give you. I doubt they are collected. But yes, all of this is about self-identification.

If sexuality was stable throughout a person's life then I doubt an all-but-straight bisexual would be likely to enter into a monogamous relationship with someone of the same sex and vice versa for an all-but-gay bisexual. But from the bisexuals I've spoken with over the years, I would say that (at least for bisexuals) sexuality can be extremely fluid over time...somebody might be a 2 now, but a 5 a few years later, and then drift back to maybe 3-ness for a while, etc. (For some, this happens in an afternoon! )

This really throws a monkey-wrench in your question...there is no such thing as a 2...just a 2-at-this-moment/this month/this year. So trying to track a 2 in a longterm relationship just doesn't make sense, because they are unlikely to remain a 2 in the longterm.

Regarding personal experience, I rate myself as about a 5 on Klein's 7-point scale (I think that corresponds to a Kinsey 4...basically just gay-of-center), and I have been monogamous with my female partner for the past 25 years. Being bisexual in a longterm monogamous relationship is a pain in the butt (challenging)...but having an awesome longterm partner is fabulous. We communicate extremely well (we both identify as bisexual, so are comfortable talking about it), and that is important...we also have high levels of trust in one another.

But in terms of "just living the straight life (or gay life)"...if you are bi, my experience (both personal, and from talking with lots of bisexuals over the past several years) is that you can try...and for a while succeed...but eventually, the desire for the other sex will catch up with you and start to drive you increasingly nuts. Many people ruin well-established relationships at that point (either by cheating, or by coming out, sometimes less sensitively than they could, to someone whom they've been presenting a rather different face to for years). Rather, I advocate being realistic about your attractions, and if you are tempted to enter into a longterm monogamous relationship (which I would not choose to do again, even though this one has been wonderful), do it in honesty, both to yourself and to your partner: let them know of your attractions, and of your intent to remain true to them nonetheless.

I've probably gone beyond the intent of your original question...sorry about that...I'll stop here.

[Chip]

Let me clarify, because some of what I said might have been ambiguous, and sending the wrong impression

There seems to be plenty of data to show that sexual identity is on a spectrum and is not binary or even trinary. Thus there certainly are people who are, for a lifetime, somewhere on the spectrum between straight and gay. I'm sorry if I implied that bisexuality is *solely* a bridge from heterosexuality to homosexuality; it's a nuanced distinction but I think there are 3 groups that label as bisexual:

• Those who are truly bisexual (or somewhere on the spectrum between straight and gay), and over a lifetime, have felt attractions, and perhaps had relationships with, people of both sexes;
  
  
• Those who are gay but, according to the study abstract I read, are in the process of accepting themselves and temporarily labeling themselves as bisexual
  
  
• Those who are probably gay; i.e., have never had an opposite-sex relationship, nor shown any meaningful signs of opposite-sex attraction, but still insist they are bisexual. No one knows for sure, but for some of these at least, they are probably gay but in denial and stuck there.
  

The problem is, no one knows who is in what category (including, sometimes, those in each category) which makes it difficult to discern anything meaningful when conducting a study, unless it's a really exhaustive study that looks at behavior and not just at self-reports of sexual identity. Even there, we have a strong possibility of bias in the data provided by the people self-reporting.

Finally, there are definitely some people (no one knows accurately what % of the population) who are genuinely completely bisexual and appear to show no preference at all for men over women, or women over men. Most of the data I've seen theorizes that this is a very small portion of the total spectrum of sexual identity.

So I think there's no question that there are people who are genuinely bisexual, and unfortunately, those people feel constantly persecuted, because they are (wrongly) mixed in with those who are transiently bisexual while coming to self-acceptance, and those who, for whatever reason, are unable to give up the connection to "straight" life even though nothing in their behavior appears to support that.

It's a heck of a mess, and it's the lack of clarity on this issue that gives the asshats selling reparative therapy and the idea that being gay is a "lifestyle choice" something to latch onto to justify their existence.