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Crypto-Wars 2.0?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by Pret Allez, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. Pret Allez

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    FBI Director James Comey cries police state crocodile tears over the client-side encryption movement. Is this a spin up of the crypto wars again?

    Basically, the first time around, the federal government couldn't limit civilian encryption to weak (which is to say, broken) encryption. The ultimate policy outcome was that we had to maximize security for everyone.

    Now, we seem to be having another go at the crypto wars, and it seems like the tack they are now taking is that strong encryption can be applied, but only if all the keys are in escrow... :dry:
     
  2. Webman777

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    I, personally, am very happy to see companies like Apple moving to take extra measures to ensure the privacy and security of it's customers.
     
  3. Pret Allez

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    So am I, but I'm just interested in the political implications of this.

    Everyone has been able to do their own client-side encryption for a long time with cloud services like DropBox and what have you. Just encrypt your file (duh) and put it in the cloud.

    So why the FBI is now pissed that Apple and Google may be doing that by default boggles my mind. It seems like the are literally saying they are angry that corporations are providing real data security to people who aren't power users.
     
  4. Webman777

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    Well, considering that most people don't even know what encryption is, this closes off a huge majority of the population to random FBI searches. So yeah, now that things are going to get a lot harder for the FBI to search through your stuff without your permission, and other companies are sure to follow in Apple's footsteps, they are a little annoyed.
     
  5. Pret Allez

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    Well, and I think part of why the law enforcement community is so angry is that they know that encryption will put them in Fifth Amendment territory instead of Fourth Amendment territory which is a harder body of case law for them to work with...
     
  6. Webman777

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    That's very true and I for one am quite happy it'll have to work that way.
     
  7. Yosia

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    The government is becoming quite tyrannical.
     
  8. AlexTheGrey

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    Well, the companies have good reason to be annoyed. Undermined trust in Google, Apple, and Microsoft hurts them. And this is one of the best answers. Configure more and more of their services such that they cannot respond to NSLs and prevent interception via eavesdropping on the backbone. Lock down data on the device so you can't vacuum it and then datamine it later (a risk at border searches).

    The government's response to me reads like someone who has been able to get away with their hand in the cookie jar, and now that someone's putting an actual lock on the thing, they are upset.

    That said, I don't envy law enforcement when more and more is digital. It's one thing to get a search warrant for a safe, and a wholly different thing when the exact same evidence is now on an encrypted flash drive.
     
  9. Pret Allez

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    Ya, and the case law is pretty interesting on the matter. It's not as if the Fifth Amendment reads "na na nah na, I'm not going to tell you the key, and there's nothing you can do about it! pbptthththth"

    It's more nuanced. In some circumstances, law enforcement can still compel production of the key and may not even have to give derivative immunity for the act of production, even though a passphrase is a "product of the mind" rather than something physical they can write a warrant to search or seize. For example, if they have other evidence that an encrypted device contains files they are interested in (such as, they saw something open before you shut down the laptop, etc, or they intercepted a phone communication where you alluded to having files they were interested in) then it's a "foregone conclusion" that once you produce the key, they will find what they were looking for.

    Basically, the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination only protects you against compulsion to reveal the key when law enforcement doesn't already know what they are going to find. The Fifth Amendment privilege does protect you against stuff like, you're a political activist, and they "think you might have connections to terrorists" or subversives or whatever. They are just suspicious and think you have bad stuff. Unless they have a pretty good idea what that bad stuff is and where they are going to find it, they can go stuff it. Any attempt they make to get a magistrate judge or a grand jury to compel production of the key is likely to fail.
     
  10. Water lover

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    So I am going to be the weird liberal out here. I know everyone is always conceited about privacy but I mean come on unless your committing an act of terrism they don't have the time and effort to waste to personally go through all the stuff they don't already. Look retailers already use so much data against you. I don't really understand why everyone is so concerned there is a big difference between being able to look through someone's stuff with a warrant and a 1984 style world. The NSA only collect's meta data against people and hell they don't even know what to do with it.