I am Catholic. I am gay. I am unhappy.

Greetings and welcome to you.

From what you say here now, I believe that you will indeed be happy as your mind and heart seem to be in the right places.

 

Hello psq and welcome to EC!

I enjoyed your well-thought-out opening post, indeed there is a lot of work to do, but with people like you in this world, it will get better!

Keep posting; I suspect you will have many more interesting things to say!

 

Welcome!

 

Hi and welcome to EC!

 

People on this forum know me as a staunch atheist and one of the most vehemently anti-religious posters on the forum (I especially despise the big three Abrahamic cults: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). In fact I've gotten into trouble in the past with my biting critiques of religious superstition.

However the truth is that, for pretty much my whole life as a child and a teenager, the title of this thread pretty much applied to me. The only difference was, I was so deep into religious homophobia, that I would never have even acknowledged "I am gay", I was just an unhappy deeply closeted devout Catholic who firmly believed that I was straight, I was going to marry young and pop out lots of kids to be baptized in Holy Mother Church, the one true faith.

And by devout Catholic, I mean really devout. I was probably the only 13-year-old out there getting down on my knees- every single night- to pray a full 5 decades of the Holy Rosary- in Latin. I despised liberal, wishy-washy post-Vatican II Catholicism. Rather than go to my local parish which is literally right down the block from my house, on Sundays I trekked all the way up to St. Agnes on 43rd street by Grand Central Terminal to attend the traditional Tridentine Latin Mass, with the priest facing the altar rather than the people.

I loaded myself on all sorts of traditional Catholic devotionals, the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary, The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ from the revelations to Ven. Anne Catherine Emmerich. Also a lot of traditional Catholic apologetics. I read from the traditional Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible, with 19th century commentary by Fr. Haydock. I referred to the traditional Roman Catechism from the Council of Trent, and the Baltimore Catechism, instead of the modern Catechism of the Catholic Church. I still have a huge book on my bookshelf containing the old 1917 Pio-Benedictine Codex of Canon Law.

I was as devout and traditionalist as one can get.

Ftr I still think the Traditional Latin Mass is one of the most beautiful and mystical experiences on earth, I agree fully with Fr. Faber when he referred to the Latin Mass as "the most beautiful thing this side of heaven".

I still hate most of what Vatican II did in terms of liturgy and theology.

And yet on the other hand, today I wish Vatican II had gone much further in terms of social issues like birth control and condoms, and of course, gay rights.

A Catholic Church that embraced traditional liturgy and theology while being fully open and tolerant of gay people as God's unique creation just might be able to win me back to Holy Mother Church. But of course that will never happen.

I've also spent 18 years of my life in Catholic schools, from Pre-K to university.

As a gay Catholic, part of my coming out was trying to reconcile my sexuality with my faith. In my case ultimately coming out as gay also began my process of adopting the once unthinkable idea for me of atheism. I saw homosexuality and Catholicism as mutually exclusive options. You can change your religion, but you can't change your sexuality. The more 'out' and 'gay' I became, the less religious I became, until eventually I ended up becoming both a militant homosexual and a militant atheist.

Usually my advice to gay Catholics is to take the same route, and ditch a church that pretty much hates you and wants you to spend your whole life alone never falling in love or having sex or experiencing any normal human social relations necessary for a healthy life.

However as someone who spent 8 of my Catholic school years in Jesuit schools in liberal areas, I can tell you you can definitely find Catholic churches and environments which are LGBT-affirming. My Jesuit high school, and the Jesuit church attached to it, were in the NYC gayborhood of Chelsea, on the border of the even gayer Village- and they held specifically LGBT-affirming Sunday Masses complete with rainbow flags on the altar. They also held support group meetings in the church for LGBT Catholics to discuss their issues.

At my Jesuit college in Massachusetts, there was an active LGBT students group, and the college regularly took part in LGBT events like the "Day of Silence", and a day where students were asked to walk around holding hands with members of the same-sex.

So if you really don't think you could ever leave the Catholic faith, I would suggest seeking out an LGBT-friendly church or organization, maybe a gay Catholic support group like the one at my high school's church. Seeking out Jesuit institutions would probably be your best bet, they are the most liberal order. (The new Pope Francis is of course, shockingly, a Jesuit, and while he hasn't changed any official doctrines, the overall tone of his papacy has been much more humble, open, and accepting of LGBTQ peeps as well as atheists compared to Benedict XVI and John Paul II)

There is a socially liberal and accepting tradition even within traditional Catholicism. I am still inspired by people like Dorothy Day, Peter Maurin, Ammon Hennacy, Catherine Doherty, the whole Catholic Worker Movement; Catholics who were traditional theologically, preferring the Latin Mass like me, but who believed Catholicism should be a force for compassion, for economic and social justice. Dorothy Day while being a devout Catholic (who deserves sainthood in my view) actually bordered on being an anarchist, greatly influenced by the anarcho-communist Pyotr Kropotkin.

So while the Catholic Church in theory is a monolith, with the official Vatican teaching being the official doctrine for every Catholic church and institution...in practice there are plenty of dissident quarters within the church where LGBTQ peeps can find acceptance and affirmation without being treated as "intrinsically disordered".

If you ever want to chat about anything in particular, feel free to message me...even as an ex-Catholic I probably still know more about Catholicism than any actively practicing Catholic on here, plus of course like most people here I know a lot about the gayism thing.

 

Hello and welcome. Its not good that your feelings of love and adorataion to God have led you to be unhappy because of what some religious institution has to say. I do believe you can be a good catholic and also lead a happy, gay life. In my opinion, your relationship should be with God and not any institution that involves human interpretations, opinions etc about how you ought to live your life. Hold on to your faith, i am sure you will also find support here.

 

Welcome to here.

 

Welcome! I grew up Baptist and Pentecostal. After many years accepted being bisexual. That led me to leave my fire and brimstone church and become Catholic. Went from being a protestant republican to a libertarian charismatic catholic. Seeing how slowly things change in the catholic church I may become Anglican.

 

Hello!

 

Welcome to EC! :smilewave (*hug*)

 

I'm just gonna completely agree with this, I went to the SSPX chapel in my nearest city for 7 years and became very involved with hardline traditionalism. So when I finally admitted that I loved boys I felt so dirty and evil. But I realised that God is a loving creator who made no mistakes when he made me. I still attend the tridentine mass and am actively involved in promoting traditionalist liturgical practices but I will not view homosexuality as sinful.

 

Many GLBT Catholics out there, either practicing in parishes where welcomed and represented, or not practicing much at all. Another thing to consider is, if you feel comfortable with Catholicism, largely by your long history with it, then why not be a "cafeteria Catholic?" The Roman Catholic church detests this concept. However, if they chased the cafeteria Catholics out the door, they would have few people left. Some higher up in the RCC in Dublin implored the cafeteria Catholics to not even bother during his sermon. What a jerk!

You can buy into all of Catholicism minus a few things. The things I don't believe in are:
- Different sexualities are disordered - really? Then why did God put the hard wiring and developmental experiences to make a person this way? Respect, compassion, integrity, and lack of unjust discrimination are window dressing, since many RC types are hostile and don't practice that
- If a woman is raped and impregnated, that is a situation where she should quickly go to the ER and be given after the fact birth control, given her lack of consent in such an act, and furthermore, the RCC won't be there to pick up her shrink's bill nor the costs of raising that child
- Their stance against birth control - really? When kids are finishing college these days and have to head home, they're supposed to be getting married and indiscriminately make babies?
- That the Eucharist is more than a commemoration (more of the Protestant mindset) and is really Christ - I'm sorry, but given that it has passed through the hands of certain priests who are fakes, I'm not buying into this.

You know that, deep down, you're a good person. Therefore, you should strive to be happy. You are entitled to it. And welcome!

 

Find the nearest Catholic Workers center... unless it's only about sex. If you get that your problems are the problems of living in a zombie capitalist nightmare world... you'll find support and understanding.

 

FWIW, I used to email a priest in the Boston diocese that identified as gay. He has died since then. He was helpful in reconciling my faith with my sexuality.

 

Reading the catechism, i can understand the conflict you face. It certainly seems contradictory at multiple points.

Anyone who's been in a relationship can tell you how laughable judgments like "grave depravity" "objectively disordered" and "not genuine affective" are. When they call you to chastity they sure don't offer much to help in that regard. Where is the substitute for a committed relationship, except "disinterested friendship" which translates to "alone and unhappy at 40"? Trust me, the hetero couples won't be inviting you into their beds or to share custody of their kids. You gotta do what's best for you.

You want to be happy, great. You're gonna have to do what the majority of catholics do, which is to ignore those comments. Yes, a majority of catholics in the US now support gay marriage. I suggest that instead of fretting over whether you drop a label like "catholic," first pursue a relationship and other activities in the gay community, then decide if those things can coexist with catholicism or your specific church. Basically, try it out.

 

This could be a thread in and of itself. Priests who are gay but closeted. And priests who are gay and identify as such. Some cities and parishes have priests that are out, but theoretically not acting on their sexuality. I believe that there are both gay priests who actually remain celibate and those who clandestinely act out. Regardless, finding the right and accepting parish can help someone reconcile this conundrum. In major cities, there are always 3 to 4 such parishes.

 

I totally get where you are coming from. My parents are both Baptist ministers, and I have been active in just about every religious organization, club, meeting possible. It gets hard when you hear these voices telling you you're mentally challenge, developmentally behind, or an abomination.

There are two truths to this:

1. The people we hear condemning homosexuality or even the questioning of sexual identity are very much a vocal minority. There are tons of people in this world who believe in God, believe that God loves all no matter what, and believes that homosexuality is not a sin.

2. The Bible does say some horrible stuff about homosexuality. But you have to remember, thousands of years of translating manuscripts that were never really "written" do little to enforce what they say. The Bible is always ordained as the word of the Lord, and yea, it should be, but not after the complete patchwork job done over time. The Bible says things about slavery being ok too, and we all know how that went down.

Religion is very tricky even when you are straight. People think they can just get it and they are suddenly experts. We are blinded by this idea that we are warriors for God. In reality, God loves and we should love. I have spent so many years angry at God because God wouldn't help me when I realized that it was actually myself who needed to help.

I have become so much more comfortable in the knowledge that we are all loved, deserving of love, and able to show love. And as we both reconcile our faith with our lives, for me it is so much better to see myself as just a human, wanting to find himself and be happy.

I agree with others, find a church that is accepting of LGBT. You'd be surprised at how many there are even when they don't advertise it. You'd be even more surprised to learn that most of them are better "Christians" without actually having to prove their Christianity. Those that spew brimstone and fire are scared, plain and simple. They will do whatever they can to make sure "different" is never experienced. Love is the answer. That's what Jesus did and what God does. And not to sound cliche, but the Beatles also said something about needing love!