So my brother came home from school today (is in year ten) and told me about his Ethics lesson on homosexuality. Apparently, his class had a debate on whether homosexuality was wrong or not, and their opinions (from what he told me most people were accepting). But my issue is: is this actually acceptable? What if there had been a closeted gay or bi kid in that class, and had to listen to all this BS, and have to listen to people debate about whether their orientation was wrong or not, unnatural or not, and why. How would that have made them feel? To me, this seems akin to discussing whether someone is 'wrong' because of their skin colour or other aspect of their person - which is blatantly not acceptable. If kids had been talking about why they believed an ethnic minority group were inferior, then they would have been denounced for racism. So why is debating homosexuality any better? I personally remember a lesson where another girl in my class told the rest of the group why she thought bisexuals were sick. She got no criticism for it from the teacher, or my other class members. Although I advocate classes where acceptance of minority groups is encouraged, I don't think this sort of debate is right. What's your opinion? Have you guys ever been in this sort of situation?
Yeah. I sat through a debate on whether transgender people should be allowed to transition. Multiple people expressed views that suggested we should be kept in mental institutions. I wasn't impressed. To put this into context, I am entirely stealth, and have absolutely no intention of coming out in the future. My college doesn't know either. So, having personal experience of this, I'd have to say that these kinds of debates a) are inevitable if you want to bring the subject up in the first place and b) provoke thought when people's viewpoints are challenged. It may be, and very often is, a nasty experience for the LGBT person in question, but it isn't all about them. Its about social progress, and that can never happen without discussion.
haha, I have only taken one ethics class so I would like to see everyone's response as well. I never really read all the arguments in the textbooks on homosexuality. edit: basically the way my ethics class was, the professor teaches you the arguments and walk you through where logical fallacies are in. we did one on abortion where basically both sides are in some way wrong in their arguments
I'd just like to add that while I support debates in general, I do not support 'debates' in which students are encouraged to express views, and then the teacher says "Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Now that we've all said what we want, lets move on to something else", and no one actually gets to point out the flaws in the other person's argument. I've been subjected to many, many of those. On the subject of debates, we once had one in class on the ethics of embryonic stem cell research. I was on the pro side, and the other side went first. I said approximately fifteen words, and they all just said I was right. Easiest debate ever.
I think the point of these kind of ethics class is to make kids take a difficult question and be able to debate either side of the question regardless of their personal beliefs. It's a critical/lateral thinking exercise, something to make sure people have the mental agility to look at questions from each angle and analyse each side. It doesn't have to be done with such a controversial issue, although I suppose this applies to nearly any topic of this nature. On principle though I believe that RS classes should be used to encourage people to talk about the big questions, because ignoring them is not the way forward. Getting people to ignore the big questions is what repressive governments and extremists do. We need to be talking about these things and having debate to move forward, and I'm all in favour of kids being encouraged to in class, as it can only serve to challenge their misconceptions and get them to form an informed opinion on the matter and have a more open mind about it. As long as it's a proper debate like hexagon outlined that is. So there you go. Can and should be managed tactfully, but in principle it's necessary. As long as it stops short of proselytising or encouraging homophobia, I am in favour of encouraging people to have reasonable, rational discussion about this as it's important people do. If RS classes have these debates in a neutral and sensible way, I'm for it because it is important to allow people to debate this in order to actually understand their own and others' opinions better, it's what's needed for social progress.
The same rules that allow the children to be homophobic, allow that gay or bi kid chance to defend them selves. It hasn't been proven to the point where it's unarguable whether being gay is right or wrong, so they can't say if an opinion is right or wrong.
Personally, I live for this kind of debate. Even if I don't hear them in a class, I know there are homophobes out there. Might as well have the chance to fight it out head on. :icon_twis If you don't have that kind of attitude, I can see this being an uncomfortable experience. All I can say is that its many times more likely for someone to be convinced that homophobia is wrong than that homophobia is OK (just look at the changes in opinion polls on any gay rights issue in the past couple decades). While it might be hard, it can only do good for the LGBT community as a whole by creating more allies. Also, it might be nice for that gay kid to see which of his classmates he should be wary of if he's still in the closet and which to trust for support.
Boom. This is exactly the point. During my debate class in high school, I had to come up with the beneficial aspects of cancer and argue why the existence of cancer in human populations was overall a good thing. People need to learn the ability to see the pros and cons of different perspectives. Is it wrong to pick controversial topics like homosexuality? Maybe, but in my opinion, kids are way too sensitive nowadays.
I guess this is why i'm for it: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/chit-chat/111522-oh-somewhat-made-my-day-today.html If you imagine you don't have much support and then get that experience? Now i know what you mean, it could easily go the other way and be devastating. Something we learn early on is a large part of the world is just going to hate us no matter what we do. If stuck in a homophobic area, if not in a 'debate' they'll be getting it in the halls, or in church, or a friend's house, or their parents. Discussing these topics is the only to make headway. If even one kid has the courage to voice their support, i as a gay 10th grader in homophobic area would find that uplifting. As it turned out, we never got the chance to discuss it in a formal/civil way, so that support never appeared.
Omg. We were in class like 3 weeks ago (It was AP Human Geography) and we had a discussion on how prefrence changes your lifestyle well my self and my lesbian friend were really waiting for responses only two of them were homophobes but she was found out after writing pride on her hand in rainbow letters, I told her on the bus, many people (10) know i am gay, I want to tell all but firstly i must put these roaches out which i easy i am with good terms with all adminstative staff and disciplenary staff so we can get rid of those pest
I'm going to say that in a reasonably intelligent/analytic class, they should be able to realise how pro-gay logic is. Of course, a lot of people lack argumentative logic, so might still believe the anti-gay stuff.
Ethics classes debate divorce too, and there are probably kids in them with divorced parents. Ethics classes debate suicide, and it's entirely possible that someone is or was suicidal. Ethics classes debate abortion, and a kid might have had an abortion and have to listen to others calling them a murderer. I don't think that homo- and transphobia should be barred from ethics classes through stopping debate about the issues. I think that there should always be counseling and such available through school for if students feel degraded or whatever and need it, and I think they should be allowed to leave the room for a while, but the debates should still happen. As WilliamRoberts said, it gives kids a chance to defend themselves as well.
It is these types of debates that could make one doubt if there is something wrong with you if the debate turns extremely homophobic and the teacher just leaves it at that, but it is also these types of debates where you need just one person to stand up and explain and defend gay rights to give a closeted kid the courage to accept themself or come out or whatever is the next big step at that moment. Also as Aussie792 pointed out logic is very pro-gay and logic triumfs in intelegent debate. It is through inteligent debate that the world has become a more accepting place (and that I for example have changed my views away from what my parents taught to a more liberal open minded view.) My point is debate can change how people think for the beter therefor it should be allowed.
I attended a Catholic primary school, high school and college. None of my teachers spoke out against homoesexuality and condemned it if it was reported. However, in things like RE (Religious Ed) and Open Group (mandatory RE for an hour...) we'd get utter nonces saying things like "it's not natural" and "marriage is sacred" and (I am counting) I made three people cry. They no longer speak such shite. Moral of the story: Don't mess with a half-dyke! (I am allowed to call myself that, right?)
That does sound awful. I was in a debate elective last year, and I had to argue against gay marriage. I seriously started crying when I foud out what I was supposed to be arguing, and everyone thought I was crazy. Anyway, a year later I came out to my friend who was luck and was put on the pro side. The first thing she said was "How the in the world did you argue against gay marriage?!? And you won!" (We did win. It was kind of sad; I was hoping we wouldn't. So was everyone else in the class - it was 100% open-minded, kind people) But anyway, it sucks.
I don't believe that is a topic that is debatable! I think you're spot on with the skin color comparison. Now, I was an irritating fucker in HS, so I would have asked if we could debate being a heterosexual after we were done debating homosexuality. Then I would have asked to debate being black versus being white. Then when the teacher starting picking up what I was putting down, I'd probably threaten hellfire and walk out of class. My highschool teachers LOVED me. You can't debate things that just ARE and aren't changeable.
